AI Proposition

AI Proposition

Here is where ideas can be collected for the skirmish AI in development

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babe
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 May 2005, 14:14

AI Proposition

Post by babe » 11 May 2005, 14:18

Hi,

Very good work !

In the past, I worked on AI projects (neuronal and semantical networks) in C++, and really loved TA.

So I propose you to help in the developpement of the AI engine based on these ideas:
- hierarchical system (tree or pyramidal system in fact to reduce complexity) :
- for each great objective the AI has, a unit called HQ is allocated and
responsible for this front,
- the AI gives units to each HQ in order to reach its objective,
- A HQ can "itemize" its main objective in sub-objectives and creates sub-HQ on
these sub-objectives,
- ...

- front system (especially for land units, coupled to hierachical system) :
- a front is a flexible line of units and commanded by a HQ
- every unit belongs to at least one front and has a specific place so a left unit
and a right unit, except if it is an end unit (see after).
- a front has a start point (other front point, border or sea coast) and an end
point (other front point, border or sea coast also) or is circular (it's the beginning of the end)
- a front has a width, so multiple ranks, for example : a first rank of close
combat units, a second of middle range units, and a third
- ...

I can send you UML drawings, classes or other things if you want.
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AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20669
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF » 12 May 2005, 11:21

Post everything, the more the better.
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jouninkomiko
Posts: 436
Joined: 26 Aug 2004, 08:11

Post by jouninkomiko » 12 May 2005, 19:28

easy for you to say, alantai. don't tell people to post all their ideas if you're not willing to post yours. they wouldn't want you stealing them, you know
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ReneV
Posts: 27
Joined: 10 Mar 2005, 07:32

Post by ReneV » 13 May 2005, 08:54

jouninkomiko wrote:easy for you to say, alantai. don't tell people to post all their ideas if you're not willing to post yours. they wouldn't want you stealing them, you know
Alantai knows he's welcome at that roundtable I had in mind for you and me and everyone willing to learn...

Please please please people, leave the ego's at the door.
Your soul is much better for coding more ;)

Jounin, what is your practical point of view regarding open source roundtables and people like Alantai learning our tricks?

See, I think eventually Alantai can be pursuaded to join the open team...
Open teams are much more fun, I'll tell you. There's simply less peerpressure to perform since everyone does only tiny bits, competing in the small rather than the egotistical large.........................
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ReneV
Posts: 27
Joined: 10 Mar 2005, 07:32

Re: AI Proposition

Post by ReneV » 13 May 2005, 08:58

babe wrote: - for each great objective the AI has, a unit called HQ is allocated and
responsible for this front,
- the AI gives units to each HQ in order to reach its objective,
Have you read http://veerman.name/spring.html ?

I love your idea (it echo's mine ;)) but I propose we make "HQ's" ("officers") virtual, not tied to a unit. Robots can transfer command to another unit in the group easilly, and knowledge of tactics is available to all units (hive mind).

Let's get this game up to SF specs, i'm thinking ;)
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AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20669
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Post by AF » 13 May 2005, 12:19

Jouninkomiko, after the allconsuming conflict of interests show between me and Tsumari I think that it would be in both our interests not to raise tensions any higher than what they already are. It is reactions like that and posts like that Jounin that I am trying to keep out of Darkstars.

My ideas and thoughts are with respect to me. Babe's ideas are withr espect to babes. babe offered and I took the offer up on behalf of the community here. Afterrall we should post what we have whenever we can wherever we choose, I have chosen darkstars, he has chosen here, respect our decisions and do not argue opinions that have no bearing on the facts.

And Renev, thanks, I have said that I shall keep darkstars closed but I will release thoughts and ideas *the same thoughts jounin thinks I'll never release* when the time is appropriate or there is a request from someone within darkstars.

As for you Jouninkomiko, you have to set an example for the community being on the spring dev team, and your not doing a good job of it at that with posts such as that. I on the other hand have no moderator or site admin status here and can speak freely within reason.

As for not posting ideas and telling others to post theirs, I think you're being hypocritical with regards to your own thoughts to your own goal of creating an unbeatable non-cheating AI *see skirmishment thread*, no mater how small a thought you have said absolutely nothing about it save verification of the thoughts existence.

And Renev, I appreciate the place on the roundtable with everyone else and I will be there soon enough, but I have my own tables to see too first.

And all of you be aware, the foundations of mine and triaxx work are sitting in the general discussion forum somewhere, and though we may ahve changed the architecture desing and expanded on it, the ideas are still there as they where originally along with the replies of others and the questions and answers asked and replied. So do not villify me for posting at Darkstars, you're welcome to come to darkstars and look yourself, it is not closed int he esense, there's a dev team and it's rigid and we only elt people in when we a;; think we need it or are unable to cope, we let you in if we think we can trust you can follow the No leak rule and post comments on what is there, such as flaws or improvements or even rival ideas and AI proposals.

Enough of that said, babe, I think its time you spearheaded the move away from squabbling over wether darkstars should be opened up or not and moved the theme towards AI itself, afterral you have experience and knowledge.
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ReneV
Posts: 27
Joined: 10 Mar 2005, 07:32

Post by ReneV » 13 May 2005, 12:55

i agree, enough politicking...
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
Posts: 1222
Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15

Post by [K.B.] Napalm Cobra » 13 May 2005, 13:51

*ahem*

Just thought I'd make my presence known. And since you've finished your exams could you get to work on the global ai interface Jounin? Chop chop. :lol:
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ReneV
Posts: 27
Joined: 10 Mar 2005, 07:32

Post by ReneV » 13 May 2005, 14:49

:wink: :mrgreen:
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jouninkomiko
Posts: 436
Joined: 26 Aug 2004, 08:11

Post by jouninkomiko » 13 May 2005, 19:26

lol whaddaya think im doing RIGHT now, eh?! :P

-- and alantai, i'm not modding anyone. im speaking my mind as a member of the community. i respect your desire to keep your ideas to yourself and come out with your own AI. in fact, i won't even go to convince you to make it open, because i think it would be GREAT to have competing AIs. but, i'm saying that you shouldn't promote openness unless you're making your own ideas open as well.
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Triaxx2
Posts: 422
Joined: 29 Aug 2004, 22:24

Post by Triaxx2 » 13 May 2005, 21:28

I've only agreed not to disclose the work of AF, and the other members of the forum. I don't mind other people using my stuff if it helps.

I do ask, that if we're going to discuss the AI, that's all we discuss, and put aside any arguments that might spring up later, at least until after we get an AI up and running, no matter whose it is.
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babe
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 May 2005, 14:14

Post by babe » 31 May 2005, 13:46

Everyone can use my ideas if he find them good...

So no problem.

I played yesterday on the old TA. It's always top !

To ReneV : I read the summary.

It is essentially focused on global strategy (and unit comparer so low level tactic).
My view go from this high global strategy to high level tactic organization (with the notion of "depth" in the front line)

"Tied" or "Virtual" Officer is not really important for me. Tied officer have the advantage to create desorganization int the case of their death (a little like in Warzone 2100).

To my mind, all means to decrease AI complexity must be used.
A hierarchical command structure could be a good mean -> specialized and localized AI methods.

So I try to read the source code of TA Spring to provide you with base classes.
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