License of Operation Polaris 0.5

License of Operation Polaris 0.5

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IllvilJa
Posts: 90
Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 00:01

License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by IllvilJa »

I liked the mod!

What license is it released under? Can it's content be (ab)used in creative ways? Can community members contribute to the mod's contents in creative ways? The simple design of some aspects of the mod makes the latter a bit tempting.

It performs nicely on my linux box, using an Intel 965 GPU with all it's warts. No issues with the ground going black or disappearing (at least not when I tested with my favorite maps like Levels v2, Victoria Crater and Verdant 44).

So yeah, a FOURTH mod to add to the list of P.U.R.E 0.55, Spring Beta Lite and Kernel Panic that I actually can play!

The mod seem to focus on pretty low level of detail (at least regarding the number of polygons) resulting in some "Lego look and feel", at least regarding the infantrymen. In my humble opinion STICK TO THAT LOOK AND KEEP DOWN THE NUMBER OF POLYGONS! (That's right, never mind putting eye-candy like NOSES in the infantry men's faces... that's a total waste of polygons if you ask me :wink: )

I bet the relative low amount of polygons is one of the reasons for the mod running nicely. And yes, even if the infantry men may look a blocky, they look superb. There ARE some room for improvement on textures, but that's absolutely NOT a show stopper that prevents me from playing the game.

Lot of interesting features. For example, I like that Galaxy like cargo jet that comes flying with a supply drop to the vehicle yard. Need to test the game online vs some human players. And seeing the FAVs ending up lying upside down when they've been wrecked adds to the feel of a real mayhem battle! Also... anti air infantrymen too! The infantry men DICE forgot to include in Vanilla Battlefield 2 are present in Operation Polaris!

Any chance to get KAIK supported? Installing on RAI on Linux seemed non-trivial (at least not as trivial as installing Spring or Spring-lobby) so it won't happen for me.

The bastard inside me thinks the following perverse thought: HEY, LETS ADD SOME MORE MODERN ARMIES LIKE CHINA, "MIDDLE EAST COALITION", UKRAINE, GERMANY, SWEDEN AND NORWAY AND WE GOT A GREAT START FOR A MOD THAT CAN BE TURNED INTO A VERY BASIC REPLACEMENT FOR BATTLEFIELD 2 AND SOME MODS OF THAT GAME!

Damn, I've been doing some FPSing in Operation Polaris, and it seem to be an EXCELLENT test bed for trynig to create FPS gaming a la the Battlefield franchise. Gotta go tell my old BF2-buddys about this (but I'll wait until the next release...)

(BTW, did you folks see that? When the wheeled battle tanks turn while driving, the ACTUALLY TURN THEIR WHEELS!! THAT'S the kind of stuff I love to see implemented and love to see that it get's higher priority than ultra detailed graphics with 20k polygons per unit! Simple Lego graphics but with technically correct behavior for the win! Now just give us some rudimentary physics... so these vehicles actually can jump over bumps or drive like daredevils over cliff edges in FPS mode... or tumble away in flames after a heavy artillery shell has hit them close enough...)

K, enough raving and hyping! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK (and let us know if you want ppl to contribute to and/or (ab)use the contents of this game... DAMN, an FPS shooter with those Lego infantry guys would ROCK! Abuse of this concept is sooo tempting!).
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
Posts: 7017
Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by zwzsg »

IllvilJa wrote:so these vehicles actually can jump over bumps or drive like daredevils over cliff edges
Actually...
Watch closely at 2:43 to see what I mean
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Centipede
Posts: 20
Joined: 16 Apr 2008, 08:44

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Centipede »

the license is "if you borrow or steal my shit without asking I will set you and everyone you've ever loved on fire while raping them"
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Saktoth
Zero-K Developer
Posts: 2665
Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Saktoth »

That is very sad, closed source software ftl. Spring wouldnt even exist with that mentality.
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Centipede
Posts: 20
Joined: 16 Apr 2008, 08:44

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Centipede »

I'm sure the world weeps
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User avatar
IllvilJa
Posts: 90
Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 00:01

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by IllvilJa »

Well, now he said "without asking". The software may still be very open as long as one asks him or have a dialogue with him. So I'm not having much problem with that part even if it may be slightly impractical for ad hoc contribution to and use of Operation Polaris intellectual property.

That said, Centipede, please amend your license to not contain references to illegal, unethical and impractical actions. In it's current form the license is discouraging not only from unapproved borrowing/theft of intellectual IP (which might be what you want of course), it also discourage from even asking for that approval, from participating in general in the project and from even playing the mod (which also might be what you want but I personally suppose you don't).

In general. a less trollish license would be a big win for Operation Polaris, IMHO.

(Don't get me wrong. I don't care too much about obscenities, but references to the act of "rape" is not just obscene, it's actually by far too offensive. Ok, I admit that it's my personal preference here but I'm inclined to believe that preference got SOME general common sense mixed up with it... Anyway, keep up the good work, I'll try to get SOME opportunity this weekend to do some more serious multiplayer testing of Operation Polaris.)

Edit: the license is impractical because depending on the person who has carried out the unapproved theft/borrow of intellectual property, you might have to visit multiple continents in order to enforce the license (the license states you do this enforcement in physical person, so the physical travel had to be done) and also, the act you mention in the license, is not only unethical, it would also guarantee severe burn damages to your person to the extent that you probably would not survive repeating the act more than a few times (if at all).

I'm not saying that enforcing other licenses (like the GPLv2 for instance) is trivial, but they do usually not include fatiguing and expensive travel and acts that will cause the harm and/or death of oneself and others.
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smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by smoth »

Saktoth wrote:That is very sad, closed source software ftl. Spring wouldnt even exist with that mentality.
Not everyone shares your opinion.
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Centipede
Posts: 20
Joined: 16 Apr 2008, 08:44

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Centipede »

I have a crack team of pararapist pyromaniacs on standby 24/7
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Peet
Malcontent
Posts: 4381
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 22:04

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Peet »

Saktoth wrote:That is very sad, closed source software ftl. Spring wouldnt even exist with that mentality.
Spring was closed source for a significant period of time (five years). If you're going to use logical fallacies to trumpet your opinion you may as well base them on correct information.
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Guessmyname
Posts: 3301
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 21:07

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Guessmyname »

smoth wrote:
Saktoth wrote:That is very sad, closed source software ftl. Spring wouldnt even exist with that mentality.
Not everyone shares your opinion.
Seconded. Look what happened with emmanuel's mod/abomination. Besides, we modders put hard work into our... er, work. We don't want it stolen. Modding is SERIOUS BUSINESS, yo!
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IllvilJa
Posts: 90
Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 00:01

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by IllvilJa »

Centipede wrote:I have a crack team of pararapist pyromaniacs on standby 24/7
Considered disbanding them? No, I'm not asking because I think IP theft is ok, honest!

Tried OP online earlier tonight against my son on the Sail Away map and it was great fun! Especially the cougar (attack airplane) was fun to fly in FPS mode, using the archipelago's topography to ones' advantages to avoid exposure to enemy anti air fire.

The map ended up in sort of a stalemate though even if we did not explore ALL the options for carrying out large scale attacks over water. One thing critical to build howitzer batteries (which are great for cleaning away enemy presence on a nearby island) is to get a "repair truck" on that island to create those batteries but not all islands have a suitable spot for building the factory for creating those trucks. So this really calls for SOME way of transporting heavier gear over water, like, for instance, some large water transport.

BTW, the repair truck need to be renamed to something more sensible... like construction truck to indicate that it actually create cool stuff, not just repair it. Actually, Spring need some functionality in the GUI to automatically draw what units build what things so one don't need to guess (even if the exploration of "who builds who" is part of the joy of testing a new mod, like "Wow, look, this guy can build gizmoid freakazoids! How cool!").

Also, a skylift heli for moving vehicles (ok, perhaps not the heaviest MBT or Artillery trucks) would be nifty too.

The patrol boats were sailing around partially submerged, being unable to fire, at least visibly. In FPS mode both the patrol boats and the tilt wing aircraft refuse to fire when I try to shoot enemies from them. Also, an anti air boat would be lovely to have around!

Great mod! Will definitively tell my clan-mates about it! Also, it seemed to be leaner FPS wise and graphics intensity-wise compared to P.U.R.E 0.55 (also a wonderful mod) which is good. So keep up the good work of keeping down the total poly count onscreen! My intel 965 GPU definitively could keep up!

A great platform for future development for the improvement of the FPS mode of Spring!
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Jasper1984
Posts: 196
Joined: 25 Jan 2008, 20:04

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Jasper1984 »

Saktoth wrote:That is very sad, closed source software ftl. Spring wouldnt even exist with that mentality.
I agree, at least make the lua GPL, please?

I am unsure about the legality of not having it under the GPL. What kind of dependencies are in interpreted lua that make this requirement, that are not in a web browser and html? (Web browsers like Dillo, Epiphany are GPL.) Edit: i mean the code, not content, here.
Last edited by Jasper1984 on 03 Nov 2008, 00:19, edited 1 time in total.
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smoth
Posts: 22300
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by smoth »

Jasper1984 wrote:I am unsure about the legality of not having it under the GPL.
may a knife find your eyes.
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User avatar
Decimator
Posts: 1118
Joined: 24 Jul 2005, 04:15

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Decimator »

The creator's content is their own to do with what they wish. That includes telling everyone else that they cannot use it, Jasper.
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User avatar
zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
Posts: 7017
Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by zwzsg »

Jasper1984 wrote:I am unsure about the legality of not having it under the GPL.
Meanwhile, everybody is happily distributing stolen Atari properties.
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tombom
Posts: 1933
Joined: 18 Dec 2005, 20:21

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by tombom »

Guessmyname wrote:Look what happened with emmanuel's mod/abomination.
Proof of the excellence of the open source model and the massive possibilities inherent in opening up the content field to everyone, from the amateur to the professional. What is your point?
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User avatar
Hoi
Posts: 2912
Joined: 13 May 2008, 16:51

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Hoi »

Please don't make this licence flamewar 3000.

Really, this is about a mod, not about licences.
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User avatar
Guessmyname
Posts: 3301
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 21:07

Re: Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Guessmyname »

*seriously starts to question tombom's sanity*
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Tobi
Spring Developer
Posts: 4598
Joined: 01 Jun 2005, 11:36

Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Tobi »

I don't want to see personal insults / ad hominem arguments in this license discussion.

I will instaban anyone who does that in this thread (after this post) for a while without prior warning.

Thanks for your understanding.
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Jasper1984
Posts: 196
Joined: 25 Jan 2008, 20:04

Re: License of Operation Polaris 0.5

Post by Jasper1984 »

To clarify, i was talking particularly about the lua code, the engine is under the gpl license. The fsf stance was that lua had to be gpl-led too, and there were 234 posts about it right here, so i can't say it is undisputed.
Why wouldn't you want the lua GPL? So you can have some fancy effect and others have to figure it all out again?

But sure, whatever, fuck it.
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