[Mod] - Final Outcome

[Mod] - Final Outcome

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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Cremuss
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Joined: 28 Oct 2006, 21:38

[Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Cremuss »

Hello !

I've finally decided to make a thread and write my ideas, because I can't manage a mod alone. So, if some guys wants to work with me, it'll be possible to do something, otherwise, feel free to use the ideas ^^

This is a bit long because I've lots of ideas. Also sorry for my bad english, I hope that you can understand every features. I've tried to explain as best as I can :-)

Image

Final Outcome will be mainly based on Balanced Annihilation but with enough new features and gameplay tweaking to make a game completly different.

I] Ressources system tweaking.
1] Metal/Energy/Malonium

I'll add a new ressource called "Malonium".
All planetes has been affected by the nuclear war. With the very high radioactivity and very high temperature, bombarded grounds has got a new physic proprieties that you can use.


2] How can I have Malonium ?

You have to build a factory (avaible in T2) which is gonna work like a metal extractor but not exactly. The factory will have to grow the malonium from the ground, and then pick it (like tiberium in C&C) so the ressource will not be produced like metal or energy every seconds but every X minutes.

3] Why should I do factory to have Malonium ?

Malonium will not be usefull for fast games. You'll need malonium if you want to build very heavy buildings and experimental labs/units. Malonium also allow you to get lots of metal by converting it.

4] Metal system tweaking.

This is an idea I had : metal spot are now exhaustible. Once all the metal has been drawn from the ground, you'll have to use a "drill" to make the metal spot avaible again. But I don't have any idea how to really manage that so it's just a concept atm.
I also imagined that you can create metal spot with drill but again, it just an idea.


II] Xp... Xp... LvL up !

All units can lvl up. A solar generator which is producing energy during the beginning of the game will be more performant than a newer one.
Same thing with attacking and defensive units. The more they'll kill enemy units, the more they'll be stronger.
And same thing with labs. The more they'll produce units, the more they'll be fast to producing. It makes units more important because a T2 lab with max lvl will be more important so you'r not gonna build a lab near the front but where you can defend it and keep it as long as you can.


III] Day/Night cycle

Again this is just an idea. It'll be good to use the Day/Night widget. Like day cycle is 12min and night one is 8min. The night will make solar generator disabling, radar range less important, accuracy of medium/longe range weapon smaller. So attacking the enemy during the night will be more interesting.


IV] Builders

This is an idea I read on the forum. I liked it so .. :)
Constructors can build only one lab. If you build a lab, the cons will be "transformed" into the lab.


V] Upgrading system

I] No need to destroy a building to build a better one.

An upgrading system is now avaible on units. You don't have to own a builder to reclaim a mex to build a moho mex anymore, just to select your mex and click on the upgrade button. The mex will be transformed into a moho mex without any builders assistance. The upgrade button will be avaible with the leveling system. If your mex is lvl 5, the upgrade button will appears and you'll be able to upgrade it.
But this will not be in labs because even if you'r gonna build T2 lab, you probably wants to keep the T1 one.
Buildings which could has this upgrading system :
-Wind generator/ Adv one
-Mex/moho mex
-Solar generator/ Adv one
-Metal storage/ Adv one
- ...
So you'll have to own a wind generator if you want to build an adv one. Again it'll make units more important because if the enemy kills your adv solar, you'll have to build solar, wait until it has the lvl needed to make the upgrading system avaible, and upgrading it.



II] "Plugins"

Again, just an idea. You'd be able to improve your labs by adding turret, auto-repairing system, energy management system which increase your lab building speed etc...


VI] New units

Gameplay is gonna tweaked, not to have a faster one, but to make teching faster and easier. It'll make T3 kbot really easier to get, and adding a T4 kbot lab possible. so battle will be more huge. More units, more chaos.
So, I'll add labs :
-T2 hovercraft : 3-4 hovercrafts models avaible.
-T3 aircraft : 1 super-unit avaible.
-T3 vehicule : 1 super-unit.
-T3 naval : 1 super-unit.
-T4 kbot : 1 super-unit.

I'll add new defensive weapon too, to allow you defend your base vs very heavy units and krogoth etc...
-Defensive super-units : Why only moving super/unit like krogoth ? I could be fun if you could have a "krogoth defensive unit" !
-Death shockwave : Massive defense unit. Create a shockwave which destroy every enemy units in front of it.
-"Arachnid shield" : Make an aera of the map really slow to travel for the enemy.
- Walls with doors system (not those dragon's teeth lol)

New buildings :
-Commander center T1/T2 (see VII)
-Energy management system which increase the metal and energy production.
-Adv wind generator.
-Factory for the malonium.
-Malonium producing unit which increase malonium factory production
-Drill which is needed to make a used metal spot avaible again. It also allow you to create new metal spot. (?)
-Anti-targeting magnetic shield (see VII)
-Electronic system protecting shield (see VII)
-...


VII] Command center.

This is the greatest and most important feature.

Commander are deleted. A building is now given to you at the beginning of a game, called "Command center" (T1)

It allow you to search for "power". Once a power searching is done, you'd be able to use it for free. It's unlimited, but when you use the power, it takes time to reload. So, nukes launcher are no more avaible. It'll be done in T2 command center. You'll have to search for the nuke power and when it's done, using it for free. So like the mex, you'd be able to upgrade the command center from T1 to T2 by an upgrading button.
T1 command center allow you to search for T1 power, and T2 command center allow you to search for T1 and T2 power (nukes and other, see bottom.)

Back to the beginning of a game now. So when you start, you have a command center T1, with a power already avaible. This power allow you to build immediatly the T1 lab you want (air, vehicule or kbot) where you want in the range of the power commander. It cost nothing, so it makes the gameplay a little faster because you'll have a T1 lab in the first second of a game. You'll have to quickly build units and builder to rush or defend your base from the enemy rush.

I talked about nukes before, but what about anti-nukes ? Yeah true, you'll be able to stop most of the enemy powers like nukes with anti-nukes. That's why 2 new more buildings will be added.

Anti-targeting magnetic shield (ATMS) is a building with a limited range. Once you've build it, you can search for protection power you want. It'll protect yourself from enemy power from which you had search a protection power if the enemy is targeting an aera inside the ATMS range. So you'll be able to stop enemy nukes which targets something in the ATMS range by building an ATMS and searching for the anti-nuke power. But if the building is destroyed, the power is lost. So you'll have to build a new one, and make search again.

Electronic system protecting shield (ESPS) is a building with unlimited range. Once you've build it, you can search for protecting power for your unis. You can use protecting powers for free like in the command center. A magnetic impulsion will be send in all the map which is gonna "patch" electronic system of your units. So they not be able to be the target of the enemy power anymore. But if you build new units, they'll have to be patched too. So you'll have to wait for the protecting power reloading.
Some of high-tech units, like T3 T4 units/labs, has an ESPS already. So it's not necessary to patch them because they are already protected.

Power list :

Syntax :
where the anti-power is avaible if it is - (Command center tech needed to search for the power, T1 or T2) - Name : Description

* - (T1) - T1 lab : A T1 lab is given to you where you want in the range of the command center. This power is already avaible at the start so you don't have to make search for it. Just use it, wait for it's reloading and use it again :D

ATMS - (T1) - Labs hacking : Disabling enemy labs during 1min so the enemy is not allow to create any units with his labs. But if he has build an ATMS and has done the protecting system search for Labs hacking, nothing will happens.

* - (T1) - Spy : Show an aera of the map during 1min anywhere you want.

* - (T1) - Units : Some units are given to you where you want in the range of the command center.

* - (T1) Air units : Fyling units are given to you where you want in the range of the command center.

* - (T1) - Jammer power : Send a magnetic shockwave which disable enemy radars. Ally and enemy units becomes invisible in the mini map.

* - (T1) - Adv. wind generator : An adv. wind generator is given to you where you want in the command center range

* - (T1) - Defensive unit: A defensive turret (HLT ?) is given to you where you want in the command center range

ATMS - (T2) - Nukes : If the enemy didn't build an ATMS and made anti-nuke power search, it send a devastating nuclear missile.

ATMS - (T2) - Bombs : It fires the aera you targeted with bertha-like canon.

ESPS - (T2) - Freezer : It freeze a targeted enemy units group during 1min.

ESPS - (T2) - Units hacking : You can take the control of an enemy units group during 1min.

ESPS - (T2) - Ressources system hacking : Disable energy/metal/malonium producing units during 1min.

ATMS - (T2) - Units teleporation : A super-unit (like T4 kbot, T3 vehicule or defensive super-unit) is given to you during 30sec where you want in the map.


Ok, here it is. As you see, it'll not be pretty hard. Maybe some of the features could not be implemented actually, but there is a lot of widgets and mod that we can use as a start. Also, Lua scripting will be needed etc...
I think the hardest stuff will be in balancing, and to manage a fast and cool gameplay.

Soooo I can't manage that alone, because I'm not superman ehe :-)
I've blender which allow AO renders so I can make completly amaziinnng models that looks completly shit without (rofl) so I can make all the graphic stuff but it'll take time. We can start with the OTA content as a start until I'll finish my remodeling stuff.

So, if every body is interested in that project, tell me, otherwise, the project'll die before his born :mrgreen:

Cia ! :)
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smoth
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by smoth »

interesting. don't like the plugins though
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Decimator
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Decimator »

Malonium seems interesting, seems to be basically a prerequisite for superweapons?

You said you'd have faster teching. Faster than what? CA? NOTA? How long do you want games to normally last?

Making metal spots dry up is just not wise, in my opinion. That sort of system would lead to stagnation.

Why use the same tired old ta content? You've shown significant talent in creating your own models.

A solar being better just because its been around longer doesn't make much sense to me, and I think it would result in very defensive gameplay, as the best stuff would be closest to home.

The day/night cycle would make an interesting dynamic. Could add weather effects to this as well, like fog, rain, and dust storms. Rather than accuracy, night would probably lower line of sight, making you rely more on radar. Hence, you'd usually do stealth attacks at night.

Builders transform into labs will have the effect of fewer labs being built, because it's more hassle. Especially if you leave build assistance in.

Being forced to upgrade existing buildings rather than being able to build advanced buildings directly seems like it would add unnecessary micromanagement to the game.

Note of my own bias: Most of your ideas involve making individual units more important, while I prefer making individual units less important.
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Hoi
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Hoi »

You just made AF's day using the official spring logo :wink:

Sounds interesting, but are you using ta units? If so, I hope you use the redone ones and continue redoing them.
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lurker
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by lurker »

Hoi wrote:You just made AF's day using the official spring logo :wink:
Actually, the specification says that text must go below the logo rather than above. :P
At least that's what I think bullet point 2 is driving at. If the thread was open I'd have posted there for clarification.

This project looks like it has great potential.
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KDR_11k
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by KDR_11k »

Feature katamari? It reads like a laundry list of things that sound cool without much thought put into how it'll play.

Why the hell add T3 and 4 if teching is faster? What's the point of more tech levels when each is less important? If you want big battles, why not design it so the game starts with the ability to have them instead of a sloooooow buildup?

How do you even plan on balancing this whole mess?
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lurker
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by lurker »

I-V don't involve adding many features, and are more about swapping out fundamental gameplay elements.
VII sounds interesting and workable.
I don't think a T4 is a very good idea either. Feel free to add more T3, but actually have a running semi-balanced game and then see if you still think T4 is a good idea.
[Krogoth86]
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by [Krogoth86] »

Sounds like sort of a fusion of PURE, MA and EE to me... :wink:
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Cremuss
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Cremuss »

@ Decimator :
Malonium seems interesting, seems to be basically a prerequisite for superweapons?
Yep, that's the idea.
You said you'd have faster teching. Faster than what? CA? NOTA? How long do you want games to normally last?
Faster than a BA one. min. Actually, you can have T2 in 6-7 min in BA by rushing it, com bomb, reclaim T1 etc.. and later if you don't. I'd like to make it avaible faster, without being needed to rush T2 and teching. Maybe make labs cost smaller and building global time faster ?
Making metal spots dry up is just not wise, in my opinion. That sort of system would lead to stagnation.
Yeah maybe :roll:
Why use the same tired old ta content? You've shown significant talent in creating your own models.
I'm not going to remake all the TA content before moths, so we can do like in CA. Start with old TA units, and put new models one by one.
A solar being better just because its been around longer doesn't make much sense to me, and I think it would result in very defensive gameplay, as the best stuff would be closest to home.
Huhu. yes maybe it's a bad idea for labs, solar and mex. But I think It could work with defensive and attacking units ^^
Being forced to upgrade existing buildings rather than being able to build advanced buildings directly seems like it would add unnecessary micromanagement to the game.
I just think that reclaim a mex to build an adv mex is strange and could be tweaked :-)

@ Hoi : Yes, I'm gonna continue redoing TA units but as I said we'll have to use old units first because it'll takes time to redo all units =D

@ KDR_11k : Yeah I don't have any idea about how to balance that and I can't. It'll have to be done during the mod developpement. Testing, removing some starting ideas, tweaking others to have something cool and playable.

@ lurker : Yeah sure. I'd really want to see the command center with power system first. Other idea will be added (or not) one by one to keep a balanced game.
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MDV
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by MDV »

Great ideas! Can you make some.. maybe, tree of your units? :mrgreen:
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Decimator
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Decimator »

Cremuss wrote:
Being forced to upgrade existing buildings rather than being able to build advanced buildings directly seems like it would add unnecessary micromanagement to the game.
I just think that reclaim a mex to build an adv mex is strange and could be tweaked :-)
Well, just keep in mind the game effect it will have. Making mexes upgradable removes the need for something to go there and do it.
[Krogoth86]
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by [Krogoth86] »

Plus having mexes that can upgrade themselves doesn't make things "unstrange". You're then getting hard pressed to explain where that little building gets all that buildpower from and why it can't repair itself like if there's a repairing con nearby all the time & stuff...

In the end it's just your design decision...
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MDV
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by MDV »

I don't think that making many-many versions of resource buildings (such as Wind Generator, Adv. Wind Generator, Adv. Adv Wind Generator, Adv. Adv. Adv. Wind Generator... ))) ) is a good idea. Maybe, make old units more useful.
Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Warlord Zsinj »

imo cremuss, you've got great art skills, but if you burden yourself with the need to produce a whole mod from scratch, we'll have a bunch of gorgeous models that may never see the light of day. I recommend joining a team like CA, they could definitely use the help in the art department...

As a designer who has been working on his mod for 2+ years, and who still has yet to see any light at the end of the tunnel, let me tell you that you need to understand the colossal commitment that is involved in making a whole mod/game - joining an already established team of designers with a promising future is a far safer bet, in my opinion.
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LordLemmi
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by LordLemmi »

:lol:

Like it, it is a bit like my mod LLTA, i added/plan nearly the half of the features you planed too. If you want we could do something together ;)
Just pm me here.
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MDV
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by MDV »

Yeah, if you need help, ask. I can help with everything but don't guarantee it's quality. :mrgreen:
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Cremuss
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Cremuss »

@ Decimator : Yep I know. Maybe it could be an element to make the gameplay faster. No need to have a builder to upgrade a mex which is 50km north ^^

@ [Krogoth86] : Right :-)

@ Warlord Zsinj : Hehe, yes maybe it's waste of time. Anyway, I'm not gonna start anything right now. I just found a BOS scripter that works under linux, so I'm gonna learn scripting now so I can put my models in game by my own.
I'll continue remodeling TA units for a couple of weeks and then I'll decide what I do. Maybe leave this project and join CA team as you said ? Don't know :)

@ LordLemmi : Hehe, yep why not, but not now ;) I'm not gonna start this project, if I do, now. It's just in concept step in my head ^^

@ MDV : thx, I'll remember :D. For the tree unit, well, it's just basicly the BA one with a new tech lvl for each labs.

/me go back to this fuck*** annihilator texture xD
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Tribulexrenamed
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Tribulexrenamed »

No srsly, LLTA sounds alot like this. Make a command center modoption! We would love (I think I can say we) to have you on t3h t3am!
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Cremuss
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by Cremuss »

t3h t3am ?

What's that ? xD
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LordLemmi
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Re: [Mod] - Final Outcome

Post by LordLemmi »

He mean, you could join Our team, because we finished some thing right now and you are still thinking/dreaming about it.
:roll:
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