About Work

About Work

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Senna
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About Work

Post by Senna » 04 Aug 2013, 16:13

Hello Boys@Ladys, want to ask hows the title means.

Hows the work in north Europe? Just asking because last time when i was on germany, ive work on siemens on mining lathe CNC machines, working on all type of materials, and i had 4 years of experience, and working 7h day 35h week they only paid me 427 euro month.

Sorry? But living on an house it cost around 400-500 so had no money left to buy food... and paying other stuffs too...

there is like 20million people on germany on that situation.
this happens only on unnationalizated people, i need work during 5 years on germany to be a german nation.

It was no posible to survive with 427 euro month, with 700 euro month i have problems to end the month there, and in germany everything is ~20% more expensive.

In spain, the situation is really really bad, there is not work, even if working for free!

I know many of people there are young, and will not understand what im talking about, or may not care, but the situation in Europe its really Critical, the medium class is dieing and it looks the very old days will came back when there was only richs and poor, u are dieing because no food when ur neightbor drives a ferrari near you...

Hope someone there talks about that, imo gaming is nice and it distracts the head but... dont forget game is not all
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hoijui
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Re: About Work

Post by hoijui » 05 Aug 2013, 11:11

it is called mini-job.
the official idea is, that companies that would normaly not emply someone, or can currently not afford, or are unsure whether you are a good worker, can still emply someone. so you get employed, and when they see you are good, they give you a full job with decent sallary.
"strangely", what happens in reality, is that they employ you for a short time only, then employ an other guy for the same low salary, or if you are "lucky", they emply you for longer for the same low salary.
important to note here, are two things:
1. if you can not find work, you will get about 400Euros per month from the german gov., plus they pay your rent (i think, though they will tell you where you may live).
2. lots of germans are doing these min-jobs aswell.
if you want the rent+400E per month thing, you have to be looking for jobs, and you have to accept one if they offer it to you.
... and guess what kind of jobs it will be.
in short, this system allows to get labor for mostly any kind of work for cheap money, whenever there is an abundance of people able to do the work. jobs will be converted into mini-jobs (the only thing that is mini is the salary, and possibly the duration of the employment).

side note: prices in germany itsself can differ by factors of up to 2.5 between different regions/cities.
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dansan
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Re: About Work

Post by dansan » 05 Aug 2013, 11:40

In Berlin and Munich they are a lot of job offerings for programmers and system/network administrators with an OK sallery, and if you have a degree, you can get a good sallery.
So programming automatic CNC machines can be good, but using them as a worker will give you minimum wage only - IF you find a job. And that is in any case much more difficult for foreigners than for Germans.
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FLOZi
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Re: About Work

Post by FLOZi » 05 Aug 2013, 12:54

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azaremoth
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Re: About Work

Post by azaremoth » 05 Aug 2013, 22:08

Well - that is bewildering. Actually you should not work more than 30-60 hour per month (!) to earn that kind of money. Reality nowadays differs a little from those numbers, but 35h/week for a minijob is immoral. I would also think it is illegal. Companies like Siemens actually pay a good salary for their employees. Thus it is very interesting to hear that they pay that kind of dumping wages for the "Minijobers". Are you sure that you did not do an internship?
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rattle
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Re: About Work

Post by rattle » 06 Aug 2013, 00:26

That makes an average loan of 3,12 € / hour, even McD / BK pay their minijob lackeys more than that... that is most definitely illegal, even though there are no regulations on minimum wages as of now.

You could try out working for a timework company on the BZA labor agreement if you cannot find a full time job. When you are looking for jobs, look for CNC Dreher, that is a CNC programmer. It sounds like you've been employed as a CNC worker on "part time"...


The situation right now reminds me of some conspiration film from 2007 I've seen a while ago, food quality drops, wages drop, shit gets more expensive (blame the global lack of oil) and the rich become even richer. I can only confirm that, the job, food, living and political situation in germany isn't the best, kinda stagnating.

Well best of luck finding a job
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Senna
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Re: About Work

Post by Senna » 06 Aug 2013, 17:57

azaremoth wrote:Well - that is bewildering. Actually you should not work more than 30-60 hour per month (!) to earn that kind of money. Reality nowadays differs a little from those numbers, but 35h/week for a minijob is immoral. I would also think it is illegal. Companies like Siemens actually pay a good salary for their employees. Thus it is very interesting to hear that they pay that kind of dumping wages for the "Minijobers". Are you sure that you did not do an internship?
i came back to augsburg for work there on siemens, they made me a contract for 3 months and it wasnt a minijob, they just paid me 427 euro month for working 35h week on a programmer mining lathe cnc machine.

Im a foreigner on germany since im not german i had so mutch troubles to get stuff there...

They wanted to keep working there but i couldnt survive with only 427 euro month on, i was helped by my family sending me money from spain, that helped me to survive for those 3 month only...

My friends were gaining 2000-2500 euro month, wish i was a german, but i need 5 years to be a german guy and all the 5 years always working!, The foreigners say "whe are fucked!"

If that is the plan to keep young people on Europe, its really bad...

Im leaving to america, very tired of waiting and waiting and waiting, what news tells us its all lies, news says 1 thing, real life its completely different. I get tired of that shit Sorry
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smoth
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Re: About Work

Post by smoth » 06 Aug 2013, 17:59

Senna wrote:Im leaving to america, very tired of waiting and waiting and waiting, what news tells us its all lies, news says 1 thing, real life its completely different. I get tired of that shit Sorry
the news lies, that is why I don't watch it. I watch the market and what the pres does. I'd suggest watching cspan but everytime I watch it, I get bored to tears, it is worse than watching the market.

You cannot bother with the news, it is for plebs.
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Senna
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Re: About Work

Post by Senna » 06 Aug 2013, 18:09

smoth wrote:
Senna wrote:Im leaving to america, very tired of waiting and waiting and waiting, what news tells us its all lies, news says 1 thing, real life its completely different. I get tired of that shit Sorry
the news lies, that is why I don't watch it. I watch the market and what the pres does. I'd suggest watching cspan but everytime I watch it, I get bored to tears, it is worse than watching the market.

You cannot bother with the news, it is for plebs.

Well true, but problem is many people see the "news" thinking the future gonna be better, but everytime i go out the house, i see things thats better not talk too.... and things like that arent commented on news...

well smoth since u are in USA hows the job on ur country? for esample there news say, USA is worse than europe actually.
May they say that to keep the young people in europe and prevent them leaving to out of europe like north america? idk...
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smoth
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Re: About Work

Post by smoth » 06 Aug 2013, 18:27

Me? i don't have a job but that was by design. I am spending this year to figure out what state I want to live it. It was a decision I made some time ago. so I quit my job last year. After i spent the first half of this year traveling with my dad, I began driving around the country trying to figure out where I want to live. i have been stuck here though for the past month in pain and having random visual "auras" as they call them now preventing me from even working on spring.

as far as I know the us is doing fine. I think a lot of the doom and gloom is for population control. Having seen several places in the world that I am thankful not to live in we are more than fine. Of course I watch a lot of world issues like egypt is my current heartbreaking situation(that revolution started as an inspiration and now horrifying).

I think a lot of americans are in for a world of adjustment. _removed hateful rant about all the people who stopped after compulsory education_ People don't realize their laziness isn't going to cut it anymore. Their mindless consumerism has created the situation with the 1% and they can go cry about it all they want. Their constantly eating unhealthy fast food is why they are fat. I don't have any sympathy for the legions of americans who are uneducated slobs who have no idea the LUXURY they live in.

So I guess you could say I smile a little when I see all the people crying about losing work that a robot could do. They had a choice growing up to go their direction in life. Anyone with limited resources and the WILLPOWER can still find a way to advance themselves here! It is just that most americans are soo filled with entitlement that they believe they are all entitled work for a pathetic work ethic. There are countless people who's sheer laziness is straining the social systems which are there for the people who truly have fallen on hard times. The thing that pisses me off the most is all these old codgers in senate are slowly dismantling the education system for all the worthless slugs, sacrificing all these children for their parents!

so if you have the inner will to drive yourself to greatness, and are willing to work for it, I see America still largely healthy. The american dream is still alive as I see many immigrants doing very well! one of the big things that has interested me lately is all the immigrant indians running hotels. We have this going on, it is a thing and it makes me smile! Good for them!

The rest of the old blood of the country, I don't care one way or another. I just hate how our leaches make it harder for us to support those who truely need it, old blood or immigrant doesn't matter.
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FLOZi
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Re: About Work

Post by FLOZi » 06 Aug 2013, 18:58

Blaming the poor for their situation is so Victorian and myopic it is beyond belief.

Poverty during childhood (surely a child cannot be blamed for being poor) has a hugely detrimental affect on their development educationally (and socially)

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6343243

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=80272

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=2056960
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smoth
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Re: About Work

Post by smoth » 06 Aug 2013, 19:17

I don't blame the poor for their situation. I blame lazy people for being lazy. You cannot say that applies to all poor people. That assumption is the only myopic part.

I have said several times, there are lazy people sapping the systems which there to help the needy.
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FLOZi
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Re: About Work

Post by FLOZi » 06 Aug 2013, 19:20

The 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor is a false dichotomy used to divide and rule.

Exhibit A:
A government starts talking about 'scroungers' who are 'playing the system' and this happens;

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011 ... -strangers
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smoth
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Re: About Work

Post by smoth » 06 Aug 2013, 19:28

I am not sure I buy into the stastistics either. Many different theories have been bantered about with regards to inflation. In college I had a dem proff show me how easily the inflation number can be shown one way or another dependent on how the data was manipulated.

the guy doesn't account for taxes in his article.

then he does this:
So that means that more than 40 percent of all U.S. workers actually make less than what a full-time minimum wage worker made back in 1968.
let me break down this one
So that means that more than 40 percent of all U.S. workers(this means all, not only full time) actually make less than what a full-time minimum wage worker(before or after inflation) made back in 1968.
This is the sort of place where he should be very precise about what he is detailing.

good paying jobs like? Disappearing to? his article points left and right to nonspecific possibly non-existant points which may or may not exist.

"By Michael Snyder, Submitted by Tyler Durden." <- really? one of these fight club fans? those guys are idiots.

so I clicked the source link:
Image Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/05/2013 15:45 -0400
I cannot take this person seriously.
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FLOZi
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Re: About Work

Post by FLOZi » 06 Aug 2013, 19:43

Quite right, poor link grabbed off facebook without checking, bloke is an anti-government crank - whoops. 8)


http://www.livingstandards.org/features/pay/

http://www.livingstandards.org/key-find ... d-low-pay/
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smoth
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Re: About Work

Post by smoth » 06 Aug 2013, 19:45

FLOZi wrote:The 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor is a false dichotomy used to divide and rule.

Exhibit A:
A government starts talking about 'scroungers' who are 'playing the system' and this happens;

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011 ... -strangers
where did I say anything about the deserving and undeserving anything? I think there are tons of members of the lucky sperm club who are very undeserving.

I am saying, I live in an area with a lot of poor people who recieve checks from the government to help post disaster.. you know, like katrina. Many of these people went to walmart and bought ps3s with their katrina money. Don't believe me? this actually happend. they sold the hell out of them. There were also several poor people who were not able to get their money because they could not submit, you know, not having enough money to buy a stamp and trying to find a way to eat and live as their homes were destroyed along with their workplaces?

There are lazy people who DO use the money that was meant to help people who need it to buy stuff that they don't need. you cannot disagree, these are realities with every disaster this state has, there is a common expression that is heard "I don't care as long as I get mines" (in before racial bias, it happens from both I am sure).

this has nothing to do with the whole "deserving and undeserving" it has to do with people abusing the system because their priorities are askew. it is why there are(I am not sure about the rest of the country) restrictions on what people can use food stamps for. Another thing, I have seen first hand, parents who are trying to get by but have to buy diapers which may cause their baby to rash due to the strict restrictions on spend brought about because people buy non-necessities wth food stamps.

it is horrible. I almost passed some money to the mother to help her out but realized they may think I stole it out the register :(. I hate seeing the poor suffer. May of the poor are children and women. There are also tons of people who are just too crazy to survive in society. i remember being saddened by all the people I had heard about who had to ostracize themselves due to schizophrenia.(not that more jobs can help that).

even still all these job reports? why? if there is no way to make a profit, we cannot pull what they did in communism and have people doing pointless things to ensure they have SOME kind of work. Not that there are NOT things around the country that I DO feel need doing but there are not enough. Even still say you had them doing things? how many of them have the skills do the job and just what should warrant the reward of a really good life? We live in a system where we are raised to believe in our building ourself towards our career so we can make a better life? Why did all these other sacrifice all these important years of their life? We have people who spent years getting degrees that are a wast of time(lib arts). SO I am not saying that people with degrees are superior...

I don't feel that denying that people out there are doing as little as humanly possible to get by. I don't feel that saying those people exist is wrong. I feel it is horrible that they are eating at the money meant to help people who really need it. That does not mean I say the poor don't deserve. That does NOT mean I am saying people deserve anything. I am saying that it is horrible that we give billions to other countries so they can buy our military surplus. I am saying it is horrible that we are preoccupied with helping africa when we don't have our own afairs in order. When we have children starving in our streets WHO are we to give food to kids across the world? All that money we give to other countries is not to help them it is 100% to buy off the crazy asshole running them.
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FLOZi
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Re: About Work

Post by FLOZi » 06 Aug 2013, 19:51

Under the post-45 consensus, full employment was a leading government goal. Under the past 30 years of neo-liberalism, it is not (in fact, large reserves of unemployed is seen as useful to big business in the short term, hence 0-hour contracts and 'mini-jobs').

I just see it as totally mind boggling to blame those at the bottom of society who have nothing, no wealth, no power, no job, for the destruction caused by those with everything.
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smoth
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Re: About Work

Post by smoth » 06 Aug 2013, 20:05

It no doubt is. That is why I said earlier the news is for the population control of the plebs. They use it to distract and direct them towards different frenzies.

the Occupy moment... START MASSIVE DEBATE ABOUT ABORTION/GAYMARRIAGE/SOME OTHER MASSIVE DISTRACTION DEBATE. NDAA gets passed... occupy disapears.

not to sound too tinfoil but that is how it has gone. Many of my friends suggest the mass coverage of the treyvon case was a similar smokescreen.

I hate it, I cannot stand that cheny is not being tried as a war profiteer but we all were up in arms about bill getting head!
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PicassoCT
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Re: About Work

Post by PicassoCT » 06 Aug 2013, 21:42

I shall solve this all the merkel way:

"..clearly sollutions must be found, by getting the unemployed and the jobs together on a round table, and find a compromise, that can be postponed indefinatly, so someone inherits that shitheap of debts i intend to leave behind."

German employment laws are very protective, and yes there is a class system here. You can work as hard as you like and you will run into it..

+ There is in addition a massive bias towards "real products" means- if you have factory that produces things you can grab, you are the hero.
If you produce software, you are looked upon as a sort of shaddy peasant (as long as it is for other companys that produce grab-able stuff).
If you produce entertaiment stuff, you are sort of a pariah waiting for punishment.

That and this idiotic ("It must be 100% bugfree before we can release it"). So what? Every other company will release 3 months ahead of you, and nobody will give a shit about what you try to shovell out after that, because everybody learned the new gui with the buggy stuff that they bought.
Release generates value in people knowledge. Get it into your heads!

Still, germany also produces some cool guys, and if you dont go for surface values too much, you can have quite a time hanging out.

Minijobs and "Aufstocken" suck big time . Hope Schroeder gets it for that one day.
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Funkencool
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Re: About Work

Post by Funkencool » 06 Aug 2013, 21:57

I am also from US, but I couldn't even begin to speak on behalf of an entire country. I live in North Dakotas state capital now, Bismarck, a town of 60,000. Though, I grew up on a farm 30 miles from a town of 1,000. We raised cattle, grew durum, and had dial up internet until I was about 16 (2006).

Now we're in an Oil boom. One where anyone can get a job, a well paying job. The economy is flourishing, but our crime rate has gone up exponentially. It's the land of opportunity if you can find a place to live and survive the winter. Housing has become such a struggle they even started a new town call Centerville for the oil field and foreigners who can't find anywhere else to live.

As an example (in select oil towns) we have fast food joints paying $15/h starting wages, often with around $500 hire on bonuses. That's easily double what they were paying less the 4 years ago.
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