Why not SpringRTS?

Why not SpringRTS?

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SinbadEV
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Why not SpringRTS?

Post by SinbadEV » 26 Jul 2013, 17:02

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2013/07/fan ... total-war/

Saw this earlier and was struck, again, by the seemingly endless supply of talented people out there making all sorts of cool things... as Mods for commercial games.

I'm wondering if it might be an interesting discussion to have as to WHY we aren't the engine of choice for this type of project and what could be done to bridge the necessary gaps.
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FLOZi
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by FLOZi » 26 Jul 2013, 17:34

Skeletal animation
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smoth
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 26 Jul 2013, 17:52

got a good working melee example? do we have real mapping tools? didn't think so.
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Anarchid
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Anarchid » 26 Jul 2013, 17:54

Skeletal animation
Or actually a nice developement toolchain, including an animation system that can be used by an artist, not a coder, a map developement suite that isn't total voodoo, etc.
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zwzsg
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by zwzsg » 26 Jul 2013, 18:26

Well, the Total War serie has a well established player base and modding community, and slightly different approach to strategy than Spring.

A better question would be, why this was made in XNA rather than Spring.
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knorke
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by knorke » 26 Jul 2013, 18:39

Find your favorite "Why are there not more players playing spring?" thread and half the reasons will apply here, too.
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smoth
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 26 Jul 2013, 19:22

zwzsg wrote:Well, the Total War serie has a well established player base and modding community, and slightly different approach to strategy than Spring.

A better question would be, why this was made in XNA rather than Spring.
Because unity looks better with less effort
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zwzsg
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by zwzsg » 26 Jul 2013, 19:36

Where did you see Unity?
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scifi
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by scifi » 26 Jul 2013, 23:05

(edit)

ok since this thread is about total war, and mods, spring would have to have
- skeletal animation
- an improved ai interface
- randomized terrain generation based of certain settings
- improved morphing system
- better lod system
- random feature placement
- custom formations version 999999x
- action reaction with weapons
- allow units to be made of severall 3d objects (mount system)
... etc its just not the type of game/mod to have on spring.

Now what i think its odd, its that people dont make simple games in spring, ive yet to see a space invaders spring or anything of the sort, ive seen spring tanks and spring racer, but thats just it.
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knorke
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by knorke » 27 Jul 2013, 03:46

Now what i think its odd, its that people dont make simple games in spring, ive yet to see a space invaders spring or anything of the sort, ive seen spring tanks and spring racer, but thats just it.
There are/were some others like Airraid, Kernel Panic (when it was started), Nanoblobs and half a dozen more.
But generally yes, the big projects that require hundreds of models and years of work seem more popular. Maybe it goes back to the TA roots that require as many units as possible, many techlevels etc?

Also strange that there are not any "special maps" like towerdefense, footmen frenzy and all that other starcraft/warcraft maps, based on existing games. Hm ok, there is zK DOTA but could be much more.
Spring is pretty much perfect for that.
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Cheesecan
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by Cheesecan » 27 Jul 2013, 04:31

smoth wrote:got a good working melee example? do we have real mapping tools? didn't think so.
Nil on the first, that I know of. We have a map development process, documented by Forboding Angel. It's not at a professional level, but we could cooperate to make this and all the other points of qualification mentioned become true. There's no shortage of talent, just unity.
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CarRepairer
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by CarRepairer » 27 Jul 2013, 04:42

knorke wrote:Also strange that there are not any "special maps" like towerdefense, footmen frenzy and all that other starcraft/warcraft maps, based on existing games. Hm ok, there is zK DOTA but could be much more.
Spring is pretty much perfect for that.
I made Chicken Tag for ZK based on Kodo Tag.
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BaNa
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by BaNa » 27 Jul 2013, 10:32

CarRepairer wrote:
knorke wrote:Also strange that there are not any "special maps" like towerdefense, footmen frenzy and all that other starcraft/warcraft maps, based on existing games. Hm ok, there is zK DOTA but could be much more.
Spring is pretty much perfect for that.
I made Chicken Tag for ZK based on Kodo Tag.
I recall a working BA or ZK tower defence, with customizable paths and stuff.
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KingRaptor
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by KingRaptor » 27 Jul 2013, 12:21

I suspect graphics and performance (especially together) are also a big part of it.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by KDR_11k » 27 Jul 2013, 16:41

- Better pre-made assets
- More well known
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jK
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by jK » 27 Jul 2013, 16:50

@scifi+KR
bullshit, Unity is not a help to start a RTS, you need to code _everything_ yourself. When you played Oil Rush you see how much it sucks at RTS.
And cause you need to code _everything_ the performance is _worse_ than Spring.
So yes, it has some visual & modeling features, but those don't counter missing gameplay code.
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smoth
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by smoth » 27 Jul 2013, 16:51

BaNa wrote:
CarRepairer wrote:
knorke wrote:Also strange that there are not any "special maps" like towerdefense, footmen frenzy and all that other starcraft/warcraft maps, based on existing games. Hm ok, there is zK DOTA but could be much more.
Spring is pretty much perfect for that.
I made Chicken Tag for ZK based on Kodo Tag.
I recall a working BA or ZK tower defence, with customizable paths and stuff.
eh there is no point in debating what has and has not been done in engine. There are many interesting dead projects.

Don't get me started on all of kdr's minigames or how z made snake/pacman in lua etc.

I remember working on the spring:TD, my halloween project and a few skins for the spring moba thing. Right now, none of them are really in development. The idea was to take the code out of them and add them to my current project. Meh. I don't really know if I want to go that far anymore or not. in a few weeks I will.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by KDR_11k » 27 Jul 2013, 16:56

scifi wrote:Now what i think its odd, its that people dont make simple games in spring, ive yet to see a space invaders spring or anything of the sort, ive seen spring tanks and spring racer, but thats just it.
Space invaders? That's just a load of work for no real gain when you could just grab a regular 2D game library (PyGame, for example) and make space invaders in that.
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KDR_11k
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by KDR_11k » 27 Jul 2013, 16:59

jK wrote:@scifi+KR
bullshit, Unity is not a help to start a RTS, you need to code _everything_ yourself. When you played Oil Rush you see how much it sucks at RTS.
Oil Rush is Unigine, not Unity.


Lemme think about the non-RTS things I've done with this engine...

Air Raid has been mentioned. I also made a PvP air combat thing but that was trash... Global Thermonuclear Pong, Light Side Of Spring (if that counts), ... I think that's all of them.
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jK
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Re: Why not SpringRTS?

Post by jK » 27 Jul 2013, 17:39

KDR_11k wrote:
jK wrote:@scifi+KR
bullshit, Unity is not a help to start a RTS, you need to code _everything_ yourself. When you played Oil Rush you see how much it sucks at RTS.
Oil Rush is Unigine, not Unity./quote]
damn :mrgreen:
still making a RTS with a non-RTS engine is a bad idea, cause such engines aren't build for such unit counts, or did ever saw >>1k units in non-RTS engines. Yes even most RTS engines aren't meant for such counts.
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