DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

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DavetheBrave
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DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by DavetheBrave »

Anyone play this?

If you haven't heard of it, it is a fairly realistic open-world zombie survival mod for ARMA II. Really enjoying it atm!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Q8c8jnL3s
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SwiftSpear
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by SwiftSpear »

I own it, I've played a bit. It's painful. I thought dwarf fortress was hard to pick up as a new player, but DAMN, DayZ is just absurd.

You can't really play the game without looking up a map before hand and researching what area's are likely to spawn what items. There is no logic to running around blindly, you'll simply get lost, frustrated and die of thirst, which literally takes about an hour (which goes to show how horrible the game is when you don't know where you're supposed to be going). It's QUITE difficult to master sneaking around zombies effectively as well, and it's VERY frustrating to aggro a group of mobs, as you PROBABLY don't have ammo to kill them all (if you even have a weapon), and you're lucky if you can get them to bugger off your ass within 5 minutes of constant running. It's possible to sneak around without aggroing mobs, but learning how to do that is quite difficult and enough other stuff is already stacked against you.

Basically, I feel the game is EXTREMELY unpolished at the current time. They really need the starting spawn areas to be a little more forgiving so newbs stand more of a chance figuring out the game, and they need to increase the map based challenge in the north (where the better items should also spawn) so the expert players have something to fear aside from other players who choose to be asses.

They also need some systems in place that actually discourage 90% of the player base from shooting other players on sight. It's just too tempting when BY FAR the most valuable loot drop you will ever find is ALWAYS going to be another player's corpse, since only other players have spent hours scouring all the shitty loot drops and picked up the worthwhile items. Killing someone else fast forwards you in the game by an hour or two of playtime in many areas of the map, and there's no punishment for pursing that type of play style really. You aren't 'Wanted' in the long run or anything like that. Why would anyone ever not shoot on sight right now?

So ya, I played for about 12 hours, and found it very immersive and fun, but by enlarge, currently more frustration than it's worth. It reminds me of minecraft, but it's much slower paced, and much harder to blame yourself when you burn up all your diamonds, as in DayZ it's not your fault, it's the fault of the asshole you didn't even see putting the sniper rifle bullet in your head from the other side of the map.
klapmongool
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by klapmongool »

I have been looking into it and I'm certainly considering it. This type of die hard game is awesome.
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SwiftSpear
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by SwiftSpear »

klapmongool wrote:I have been looking into it and I'm certainly considering it. This type of die hard game is awesome.
It's not awesome yet, but it's on the verge of awesome, so although I hate it right now, I'd recommend it still. The formula being built on is stellar and I think it will be something amazing by the time it ships final version.

Just be fully aware it's an OBSCENELY frustrating game to try to learn right now. I'm a Dwarf Fortress veteran. I was prepared for hard to learn, I was prepared for bad learning curve, this was on a whole new level.
klapmongool
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by klapmongool »

SwiftSpear wrote:
klapmongool wrote:I have been looking into it and I'm certainly considering it. This type of die hard game is awesome.
It's not awesome yet, but it's on the verge of awesome, so although I hate it right now, I'd recommend it still. The formula being built on is stellar and I think it will be something amazing by the time it ships final version.
Couldn't agree more :)
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smoth
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by smoth »

SwiftSpear wrote:They also need some systems in place that actually discourage 90% of the player base from shooting other players on sight. It's just too tempting when BY FAR the most valuable loot drop you will ever find is ALWAYS going to be another player's corpse, since only other players have spent hours scouring all the shitty loot drops and picked up the worthwhile items. Killing someone else fast forwards you in the game by an hour or two of playtime in many areas of the map, and there's no punishment for pursing that type of play style really. You aren't 'Wanted' in the long run or anything like that. Why would anyone ever not shoot on sight right now?
that seems pretty realistic.
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SwiftSpear
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by SwiftSpear »

smoth wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:They also need some systems in place that actually discourage 90% of the player base from shooting other players on sight. It's just too tempting when BY FAR the most valuable loot drop you will ever find is ALWAYS going to be another player's corpse, since only other players have spent hours scouring all the shitty loot drops and picked up the worthwhile items. Killing someone else fast forwards you in the game by an hour or two of playtime in many areas of the map, and there's no punishment for pursing that type of play style really. You aren't 'Wanted' in the long run or anything like that. Why would anyone ever not shoot on sight right now?
that seems pretty realistic.
In the real world, when people do stuff like that, we hunt them down and kill them for it. That's the issue, the server structure creates anonymity, and even if you kill a player's character, they just spawn again, it's not like you've actually destroyed the source of the undesirable behavior. The fear of ramifications keeps many people from pursuing a life of crime so to speak, not all people, but many. DayZ needs some parallel system, so players have a good reason aside from just personal ideology to not choose to kill each other as a default behavior in interaction.

The real world structures that would decentivise people from acting the way they do in game aren't realistically possible within the confines of the ArmaII engine, so something else should be put in place.

The game would be more fun if it was the minority who chose to pursue a life of crime despite the consequences, as opposed to the vast majority. And if there was some way to realistically protect yourself from them (bandit skins were a good gameplay structure I felt, but they were recently removed)
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smoth
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by smoth »

SwiftSpear wrote:In the real world, when people do stuff like that, we hunt them down and kill them for it.
in a zombie outbreak, where you are struggling to even find water and ammunition do you really feel you'll be able to organize a mob AND hunt a guy while there is a zombie apocalypse going on?
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rattle
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by rattle »

A couple of years ago I made a little script for a half-life 1 version of admin mod that spawned super slow zombies near all players every second... also the screen was flashing black, white and red like my favorite fuhrers flag. When I let this script run the server was empty within minutes. To be honest what I've seen on youtube (please dont ban me) about DayZ looked about as exciting, perhaps somewhat less irritating... get food get water get ammo shoot zombie masturbate, rinse and repeat. Sounds like a deal. Man you gotta be really bored to consider this shit fun.
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SwiftSpear
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by SwiftSpear »

smoth wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:In the real world, when people do stuff like that, we hunt them down and kill them for it.
in a zombie outbreak, where you are struggling to even find water and ammunition do you really feel you'll be able to organize a mob AND hunt a guy while there is a zombie apocalypse going on?
I'd imagine the ratio of people willing to murder for basic supplies as opposed to people who would actually try to make society still function at some basic level would probably be about 1/3. I think DayZ could due to be even more aggressive in setting the ratio lower, as the game would be a lot more fun if it were more generally social.

It's not very fun in it's current state, all you ever read about is frustrated experienced players complaining about the whole world being sociopath assholes, because honestly, DayZ currently incentivises that behavior far more than the real world does (if you kill someone they probably have most of their valuables stashed somewhere and then you'll never find it, where that doesn't exist in DayZ, you carry everything) and fails to decentivise the opposite (the only punishment for murder is the obscure chance the person you just murdered has a buddy who is nearby and can come catch you in the act, if you get a minutes run away from the murder, you've gotten away scot free forever)
gajop
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by gajop »

to those who have played eve this system isn't special
i'm more interested if there will still be room for solo play, instead of just having groups ganging people
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Day
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by Day »

Been playing it with a group quite a lot!
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PicassoCT
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by PicassoCT »

SwiftSpear wrote:
smoth wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:In the real world, when people do stuff like that, we hunt them down and kill them for it.
in a zombie outbreak, where you are struggling to even find water and ammunition do you really feel you'll be able to organize a mob AND hunt a guy while there is a zombie apocalypse going on?
I'd imagine the ratio of people willing to murder for basic supplies as opposed to people who would actually try to make society still function at some basic level would probably be about 1/3. I think DayZ could due to be even more aggressive in setting the ratio lower, as the game would be a lot more fun if it were more generally social.

It's not very fun in it's current state, all you ever read about is frustrated experienced players complaining about the whole world being sociopath assholes, because honestly, DayZ currently incentivises that behavior far more than the real world does (if you kill someone they probably have most of their valuables stashed somewhere and then you'll never find it, where that doesn't exist in DayZ, you carry everything) and fails to decentivise the opposite (the only punishment for murder is the obscure chance the person you just murdered has a buddy who is nearby and can come catch you in the act, if you get a minutes run away from the murder, you've gotten away scot free forever)
lol swift so angry, solving there problem on the fly. So they need disguised hideouts.. treehouses, basecamps, with treasurechests- and traps. Lets mantis that on DayZ. Also .. if you murder to many.. you could develop halocinations of other players- resulting in firefights with thin air.
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KDR_11k
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by KDR_11k »

So the limit to what a single person can carry isn't enough to encourage grouping. Gotcha.
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knorke
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by knorke »

f you kill someone they probably have most of their valuables stashed somewhere and then you'll never find it, where that doesn't exist in DayZ, you carry everything
lol swift so angry, solving there problem on the fly. So they need disguised hideouts.. treehouses, basecamps, with treasurechests- and traps.
That exists. You can put stuff into tents (that you can place where you want) or into vehicles. Do that with other players and after a while there is a huge stockpile and you never have to loot for startstuff. Also the sound of shooting attracts zombies so at least in theory you have to think if it is worth to kill some newb for their things. Using bloodbags requires a 2nd player etc. There is lots to encourage grouping but it probally will not work with the random pub "oh this was now on top of steam sales" player.

My problem are the controlls were, think spring as fps engine.
Ladders kill you and if you change equipment you have to drag&drop it in the right order or it disappears.
After a while it probally starts making sense but I have a feeling it is no coincidence that the one person I know who plays this, has been playing the basegame since OFP.
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KDR_11k
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by KDR_11k »

Sleksa has been playing Arma and Arrowhead, I think he's going with Day Z now.
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SwiftSpear
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by SwiftSpear »

PicassoCT wrote:lol swift so angry, solving there problem on the fly. So they need disguised hideouts.. treehouses, basecamps, with treasurechests- and traps. Lets mantis that on DayZ. Also .. if you murder to many.. you could develop halocinations of other players- resulting in firefights with thin air.
Haha, It only really frustrates me because they "solved" the problem of player killing by severely retarding the start state (because if you don't have a gun you can't shoot anyone!)

In my opinion it's a very weak solution to the problem, especially since it hasn't actually improved anything.

In the long run I see DayZ being something special though. It's just currently in that kind of state, kind of like that first build of Dwarf fortress after they implemented 3D, and there really wasn't anything in the way of a real game to flesh it out around it. DayZ is weaker than it was at start, but it's really just growing pains.
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smoth
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by smoth »

maybe if you player kill it could respawn you on one of the farthest parts of the map from players AND items?
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PicassoCT
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by PicassoCT »

why not engange some tribal family system? If one of your family gets killed, you get hurt too, so its personal.. and you can restore the health of the whole family, if you hunt him down..

bloody vendettas ensue..
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KaiserJ
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Re: DayZ (Mod for ARMA II)

Post by KaiserJ »

i'm in love with this game

a simple concept, yet elegant enough to create some incredible ingame moments.

yesterday i was on a server where it was nighttime. hadn't found a weapon yet; i was creeping around one of the larger towns, and saw a grocery store. i went in, grabbed a few cans, and then notice... holy crap, that's a player laying prone behind the cash register!

so i start yelling "friendly, friendly" but they didn't respond, and slowly and shakily turned to face me (like someone told their grandma she could play, and she was still figuring out the controls) and then shot at me, so i ran away into the night, skipped over a block, and started to sneak back from a different angle.

i pop around a corner and end up right behind another player, this one clutching an axe. thankfully this guy responded, i trade him sardines for a crowbar, let him know of the violent nub i saw, and we start to slowly and sneakily work our way back to the grocery.

all of a sudden i hear someone swearing in the mic from the other side of the wall, then three different guns going off. we quickly move to the store, which is now empty, and notice that there is a flare in the middle of the road near where i had run away from grandma originally.

we run across the road, moving closer to the flare, and hide in the entryway of a house. suddenly i hear a can of pop open. i ask my friend "are you drinking pop" and he says "uh oh, no". a guy rushes out from deeper in the house and blasts him with a shotgun. i run away behind a fence and started yelling stuff like "you bastard! you killed my son! i'll grind up your organs and make a pie!"

tried to circle the block again, in order to catch the assassin from behind, but he has since slipped back a few buildings and across the road and shoots me in the legs. i fall and go unconscious, and watch him slowly move up to my body and put a round in my skull

even though i was stalked and ultimately horribly killed, it was a fantastic experience. the play-style of each individual that i came across shaped the meta, and from the moment i saw the first player until the moment i got popped, my heart was almost beating out of my chest.

picasso: personally i like the idea of being able to consume human flesh; would be the ultimate disrespect to someone who didn't treat you well ingame
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