Poland

Poland

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Decimator
Posts: 1118
Joined: 24 Jul 2005, 04:15

Poland

Post by Decimator »

We have a problem.
Jim Heintz wrote:"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike ├óÔé¼ÔÇØ 100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.

He added, in clear reference to the agreement, that Russia's military doctrine sanctions the use of nuclear weapons "against the allies of countries having nuclear weapons if they in some way help them."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_ ... le_defense
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Comp1337
Posts: 2434
Joined: 12 Oct 2005, 17:32

Re: Poland

Post by Comp1337 »

in be4 WW3
imbaczek
Posts: 3629
Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 16:19

Re: Poland

Post by imbaczek »

"I think the Russian behavior over the last several days is generally concerning not only to the United States but to all of our European allies,"
I'm a Pole, and I have to say that "concerning" is a very mild word for what people here feel.
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RogerN
Posts: 238
Joined: 24 Jul 2006, 23:29

Re: Poland

Post by RogerN »

<[NATO]UnitedStates> russia's got nukes!
<[NATO]Poland> maek anti-nuke plz?
<[NATO]UnitedStates> k

... 5 minutes later...

<[RU]Putin> EAT FLAMING DEATH!
* [RU]Putin launches nuclear missile
* Missile intercepted and destroyed
<[NATO]Poland> hahaha noob, you like our anti?
<[RU]Putin> lame porcer
* [RU]Putin ragequits

----

Seriously, why does missile defense bother Russia so much? Is Russia that concerned with the ability to blow up whoever they want, whenever they want? Besides, the anti-missile system is probably so undependable that Russia could just ignore it, or use multiple simultaneous missiles to defeat it.
imbaczek
Posts: 3629
Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 16:19

Re: Poland

Post by imbaczek »

Russia's spinning everything it can into anti-russian propaganda so its citizens are scared enough to not notice (or care about) problems in their own country. I'm also afraid that Putin and friends want to resurrect the Russian Empire of some form.
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Hoi
Posts: 2913
Joined: 13 May 2008, 16:51

Re: Poland

Post by Hoi »

Putin is like a russian Bush, that's very dangerous.
Imperium
Posts: 95
Joined: 31 Aug 2006, 20:10

Re: Poland

Post by Imperium »

imbaczek wrote:Russia's spinning everything it can into anti-russian propaganda so its citizens are scared enough to not notice (or care about) problems in their own country. I'm also afraid that Putin and friends want to resurrect the Russian Empire of some form.
Well I would say that a missile defence system put in Poland by the US is more likely with Russia in mind than Iran. In other news I miss the British Empire, that was awesome.The Prussians and Austrians too, generally the whole Napoleonic Era was pretty fun. I think I've gone off topic a touch.
manored
Posts: 3179
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 00:37

Re: Poland

Post by manored »

Unespecific military response... that sounds like Russia needs some more work on its military doctrine :)
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10366
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Poland

Post by PicassoCT »

Russia is finnished... accept it. There Birthrate is low, there Economy is Petro, there Army is way to big for there small budget - and they try to clean there eurasian borders, because they know that the next trouble they will have- will be for shure with China..

I don´t think they will be important over the next century if it is not for lost&found-nukematerial..
China, India, Brazil, those three are the new big Players in the Great Game.. Africa and the meddled East have the chance to be the Games Price...

Fine thing is that nukes prohibit conventional war between big countrys.. but what will happen if they let small countrys fight nuklear Proxy Wars?

Me Tired... :mrgreen:
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Decimator
Posts: 1118
Joined: 24 Jul 2005, 04:15

Re: Poland

Post by Decimator »

I'm not concerned about the next century. I'm concerned about right now. In case you haven't noticed, they are currently invading Georgia. Doesn't really seem like something an impotent nation does, now does it?
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Teutooni
Posts: 717
Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 17:21

Re: Poland

Post by Teutooni »

PicassoCT wrote:Fine thing is that nukes prohibit conventional war between big countrys..
Agreed. They are the most potent peacekeepers around.

As the wikipedia says in an article about Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, "--both countries would be devastated. This led in the West to the concept of mutually assured destruction, MAD, in which any changes to the strategic balance had to be carefully weighed. To the US, ABMs now seemed far too risky ├óÔé¼ÔÇ£ it was better to have no defense than one that might trigger a war."

The balance has shifted. So far, Russia has not acted, but if provoked, there's no telling what they might do. ~~

I just hope they don't sacrifice the entire planet for their pride.
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Felix the Cat
Posts: 2383
Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30

Re: Poland

Post by Felix the Cat »

And I thought "poking the bear" was a quaint saying used by my old high school to get our sports teams riled up... :shock:

*considers moving away from major metropolitan areas and military installations*
manored
Posts: 3179
Joined: 15 Nov 2006, 00:37

Re: Poland

Post by manored »

I dont think Russia will just suicide and take the whole world with it... doesnt needs to be very smart to know you need to be alive to have power :)

Also I think that if a big war happens nobody is gonna use nukes, cause the attacker knows that if he uses nukes the enemy territory will become useless and there is a high chance the defender will also reply with nukes causing mutual destruction, and the defender wont use nukes because since the attacking forces are near him he would need to launch then against the enemys main land, again causing a mutual-destructive reply... and losing a war its better than total annihilation :)

Off course, im only seeing thing from the logical point of view here, there is no telling what some paranoic militar near a launch button could end up doing :)
[Krogoth86]
Posts: 1176
Joined: 23 Aug 2007, 19:46

Re: Poland

Post by [Krogoth86] »

I don't like this system and think there should be nothing like this (well no nukes at all too but that's another topic)...

The problem is this will make a nuclear warfare even more probable than in the Cold War. Currently that "anti-nuke" system isn't of much use - it might kill some of Russia's nukes but it never will be able to kill all of them. It's highly probable though that it could destroy the remaining capacities after a first strike and that's something you really should consider. Especially lately wars are fought because of the most crazy things you can imagine and so I'm sure someone in fact could come up with the idea that it's better if Russia gets eradicated...

Especially with all this contra Russia attitude you'll find in most media 24/7 now. Heck here we recently had a report on some news how russian tourists totally mess up everyone's holidays in Turkey - ok it wasn't one of the more "serious" news you can watch but still it's something I heard for the very first time...
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Felix the Cat
Posts: 2383
Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 17:30

Re: Poland

Post by Felix the Cat »

George Bush and Vladimir Putin are said to be close personal friends - then again, close personal friendship (and kinship) among European leaders in 1914 didn't stop World War 1...
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Teutooni
Posts: 717
Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 17:21

Re: Poland

Post by Teutooni »

Russia doesn't need nukes to make a conflict escalate into a world war. Attacking a NATO member would likely have such an effect imo.
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SwiftSpear
Classic Community Lead
Posts: 7287
Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29

Re: Poland

Post by SwiftSpear »

Hoi wrote:Putin is like a russian Bush, that's very dangerous.
He kills more people though.
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Sleksa
Posts: 1604
Joined: 04 Feb 2006, 20:58

Re: Poland

Post by Sleksa »

SwiftSpear wrote:
Hoi wrote:Putin is like a russian Bush, that's very dangerous.
He kills more people though.
BUSH VS PUTIN BODYCOUNT. ROUND 1, FIGHT!

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

(Documented civilian deaths from violence: 86,609 ├óÔé¼ÔÇ£ 94,490 )

VS

- a killed journalist
- a russian ex-spy on uk

( 2 )


altho the iraqis arent really people so we should exclude all the civilians killed and instead count all the brave us patriot soldiers fighting there against the axis of evil
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Keithus
Posts: 155
Joined: 06 Oct 2006, 05:59

Re: Poland

Post by Keithus »

Couldn't have put it better Sleksa.
Saktoth
Zero-K Developer
Posts: 2665
Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22

Re: Poland

Post by Saktoth »

MAD. Nukes keep the peace. The moment someone has anti-nukes and can nuke the other guy without worrying about his reaction, things get tense again.

However, anti-missiles systems are notoriously inaccurate and Russia has a LOT more than 10 nukes. This system is of absolutely no threat to Russia. So im not worried at all.

But it is a provocation, a visible display of the USA's power over Russia, that it can put anti missile sytems in a former soviet country.

I dont expect nuclear war. Thats just not going to happen. But i -do- expect more Russian border conflicts to show that its still a player.
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