Moderators raging when their fails are mentioned

[8611z]

Historically moderator appointments are nominated by the public in a transparent and democratic fashion, then the current moderator team elects from the the nominations.

Wrong, moderation was never organized enough for something like that.
1) abma has 'technical' access to forum and server, how did he suddendly become moderator too?
2) Silentwings is moderator since short time, where was the nomination or vote? Not even an announcement?
3) I do not recall that there was ever any real nominations and serious discussion. Usually just threads like
"Make me a moderator" and after unrelated blabla there was new moderator.
All such discussions can basically be summed up in oneliners like "why not!" or "hooray!"
But mostly the current moderator team was simply too inactive to have/post an opinion anyway, there is nothing democractic or transparent.

Any power that people like flozi have is given, I have not seen flozi abuse any trust the community has given him.

Says the user who has for years profited from moderation abuse.
You are aware that basically every active moderator had opinion to always give extra "freedom of speech" to "content creators"?
Why do you think some people got instant-banned for things where when you posted them nobody even bothered to report anymore?
Did you not notice moderators would always "talk to you about it" while others simply got warned/banned?
How did you think you got away with with posting in large colored text, constant off topic and flamewars which even still show in your signature today?
You are aware that your warning-level-counter was fixed at -1?

split topic, this has nothing to do with merit -- abma

[FLOZi]

Fine, it has been some time but it was previously organised like that:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23206

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19661


As the community has contracted there hasn't been the same level of organisation, sure, which is why when the board was constantly flooded with spambots I asked directly to become a moderator.

1. Abma is a board admin, not a moderator. This was decided between existing moderators as we were left WITHOUT ANY FORUM ADMINS after neddie left.

2. In his case, nominated by current moderation staff.

3. See above. If you wish to return to this system, then sure we can but with the much contracted community I don't feel that we have a wide field of candidates nor a large, motivated electorate.


Smoth is not immune from moderation and neither are you, cease your futile vendetta based on the lax standards of the past (caused in large part by the disappearance of most of the moderator staff. Perhaps they got fed up of dealing with juvenile grudges.) and if you want to be constructive, put forward some concrete proposals for transparency or whatever it is you want that can be acted upon, rather than rehashing the same complaints about past failures.

[8611z]

1) if abma is not a moderator then why is he moderating:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32923&p=564997#p564978
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32721#p562827
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=33213&p=567143#p567142
(...)

2) I thought so. Very democratic and transparent. How many of the currently 23 moderators took part in the vote?

3) No.
Your two linked threads imo do not show examples of good moderation.
They fall into the time where I have seen many examples of "lax standards" (as you call it) so this thread remind me more of some moderators dreaming about things that would never be realized. So they could do whatever nice looking announcements they wanted, but in effect moderators were doing whatever they want - or nothing.
Imo moderation has failed/been ineffective completly: The persons and the system. Exchanging few moderators will not change anything.

if you want to be constructive, put forward some concrete proposals for transparency or whatever it is you want that can be acted upon

In short, imo the whole moderation/admin thing should be removed and forum be put in "emergency mode" run by some suitable group.
While not without flaws, the only group I can think of would be engine developers plus possible maintainers of things like springfiles.
After a while, that can be months or years, new moderators would be selected out of whatever new people have joined the forum in meantime.
This also includes removing any special powers that normal users might still have, because its abuse does not seem to be checked as strict as announced.
For spambots a solution would have to be found, but there could be "spam deleter squad" who does nothing else but that.
Things like poll-creation are forumoptions and can simply be enabled for all posters, moderators are not needed for that.

there hasn't been the same level of organisation...the lax standards of the past ...past failures

...and present.
But I wonder more should this post be understood as a moderator very hesitantly admitting for the first time that moderation was not almost as perfect is otherwise claimed.
If yes, it would be a first step. If no then sad.
Eitherway the above proposal to me seems best.

[abma]

While not without flaws, the only group I can think of would be engine developers plus possible maintainers of things like springfiles.

funnily i'm both: maintainer of springfiles and engine developer (and i do other stuff, too)

you had the chance to be moderator, too.

i'm moderating because i think its better than without moderating -> i try to be productive and constructive.

[8611z]

If you split threads then a link and slightly more neutral title would be nice.
I did not bring up moderation and imo it fits into that thread, but ok.

funnily i'm both: maintainer of springfiles and engine developer (and i do other stuff, too)

I am aware.

i'm moderating because i think its better than without moderating

Yes, but you made yourself moderator because by power of having control over forum. Which to me is not bad even, but such "self-promotion" contradicts the claims how all moderators are democratically voted or something.

I do not want to be moderator because deleting spambots is boring and the only thing you are allowed to do.
Whenever I asked "There is a reported post, what do we do?" the answer was: "We do nothing."
Whenever someone still got close or over 3 warnings, nothing happend or moderators went into "Mercy for content devs!" mode.
Some day someone had 3+ warnings again, I sent message to all online moderators to look at it.
One moderator posted blabla.
One moderator posted a funny image.
Many were online in forum & lobby, noone did anything.
Hypocrites.

User was warned for this post; Felony 1, Felony 4.

3rd warning; ban. Not sure of the duration of your previous one, must have been at least your second ban (2 weeks) therefore double duration is 1 month, minimum. Ban evasion will result in doubling for each account made.

-- FLOZi

[abma]

If you split threads then a link and slightly more neutral title would be nice.

feel free to change it.

Yes, but you made yourself moderator because by power of having control over forum. Which to me is not bad even, but such "self-promotion" contradicts the claims how all moderators are democratically voted or something.

not sure if i did. at some point we had not active admins. phpbb doesn't allow admin rights without moderation rights.

Whenever I asked "There is a reported post, what do we do?" the answer was: "We do nothing."
Whenever someone still got close or over 3 warnings, nothing happend or moderators went into "Mercy for content devs!" mode.
Some day someone had 3+ warnings again, I sent message to all online moderators to look at it.

see above, moderators where inactive, too. imo it became much better.

[8611z]

If you split threads then a link and slightly more neutral title would be nice.

feel free to change it.

done.

Yes, but you made yourself moderator because by power of having control over forum. Which to me is not bad even, but such "self-promotion" contradicts the claims how all moderators are democratically voted or something.

not sure if i did. at some point we had not active admins. phpbb doesn't allow admin rights without moderation rights.

I do not mean you becoming admin and doing maintaince of forum. I mean you doing moderator-things,like in the links I posted:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32923&p=564997#p564978
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32721#p562827
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=33213&p=567143#p567142
(...)
or splitting topic is imo also moderator thing.
I do not mind this "dynamic" but it is annoying when others claim that there is democratic votes and discussion, who does it fool...

see above, moderators where inactive, too. imo it became much better.

Appearently not inactive enough to block the few ones who wanted to actually do their job. As said they could post blabla and funny images, so surely could do their jobs too.
What become better?

[abma]

I do not mean you becoming admin and doing maintaince of forum. I mean you doing moderator-things,like in the links I posted:

yeah, whats wrong with my moderating? i try to follow the forum rules / make threads more readable / keep them on topic.

What become better?

moderators are acting.

[FLOZi]

Hypocrites.

Something you know a thing or two about.

[raaar]

he just had to...

:/

[Forboding Angel]

@knorke
I find it a little amusing, but mostly sad that the person who tried for over a year to goad me and troll me into getting myself permabanned on this forum, is now crying foul when he fucked up and got found out. You made my existence on this forum one of the most frustrating experiences that I have the displeasure of remembering. So many times I only wanted to help others or work on projects or donate my time, and you managed to turn those attempts into a slap in the face, to the point that now I can barely bring myself to even start up spring anymore. You did accomplish one thing, you destroyed my enthusiasm and drive to work with spring. Much of anything I have done lately is because I have forced myself to do it. Much of the time when I think about working on something spring related I just get an overwhelming sense of being tired and lethargic. You managed to single-handedly turn something I love into something I can barely bring myself to do. So yes, bravo, I suppose your mission was accomplished.

Flozi and Abma have both been excellent moderators, Flozi in particular. Silentwings is generally pretty good although he isn't above petty behavior. Anarchid similarly does a great job.

No one is going to be perfect, but I feel as though the balance at the moment is pretty nice.

[raaar]

all this blaming him is excessive though.

sometimes I feel tired and lethargic too about doing actual work. I don't think that's knorke related.

[smoth]

there was a time where any attempts to help someone were poopoo'd by knorke if your attempt to help someone didn't meet his standards. Instead of helping the person mostly he was interested in flogging you publicly for giving what he decreed as flawed advice. I have not seen him do this for some time but that has a lot to do with what forb is talking about.

There was a bit of drama between forb and knorke with the issues revolving around the evo launch. Just about everything that could go wrong did and much of the community INCLUDING KNORKE rallied to help forb and evo. There was drama, knorke and forb probably are not going to be able to have a beer together any time soon if you catch my meaning.

There are many points in this thread that I would like to address but countering them will result in knorke just altering his angle of attack. It becomes a prolonged engagement that just eats a bunch of my time. I am not sure if there is anything to be done with respect to knorke's grudge with me and I find it all tiring as I used to really like the guy. Either way, it is what it is. Knorke, you have acess to some things but you do not know it all or see it all. I have been banned several times, I had a negative -1 because of something they were testing and I watched my warning level. So if say 3 warnings were enough to get me banned and I was at 2, I would lobby that they actually enforce the rules. At one point I was banned because i sent sinbad a hentai gundam picture as part of a conversation(it was in context) but that was the warning before the one that was enough to get me banned once. I didn't cry injustice, I was just like, LOL OK, I need to go sit in the corner and think about how to better behave.

I don't understand what to do about the situation, he feels as if they should just bring the hammer down on forb and myself. Goodness knows why but whatever, they have brough the hammer down within the rules here. I don't think i need some sort of extra vigorous spanking and even if the moderation staff did give me 10 lashes in public square he would demand 20. I am not the same person I was 5 years ago when this forum was closer to the wild west. I have been through many very traumatic things and continue to live in constant fear of being disabled again for 1 week to a month. Knorke's consistent railing over the fact that I am not banned(permanently) is ridiculous but he has succeeded in driving me off the site for around 4 months before just because he really did make me feel like a bad person any time I so much as showed up.

I will continue to work on my thing when I can. Hopefully my health with stabilize and I can resume 100% productivity. Until then, I remain in a state of more or less constant depression over the fragile nature of my neurological condition and frankly I don't need a person who wants to follow me around calling me bastard any time I act off color. I am an emotional person, creative people tend to be. Forb and I are both that way, we have personally had it out in the past, gotten over it and resumed working with one another many times. Why this sort of burying of the hatchet is impossible for knorke I have no idea and I lack the emotional energy to justify dealing with him.

[FLOZi]

No need to continue posting whilst he is banned, will only rile him up more when he comes back.