would it be possible to have ai animals in multiplayer/skirmish/whatever spring games? if so just imagine the possibilites, birds flying in flocks overhead, perching on trees and units that arent moving. schools of fish moving silently through the oceans, flashing in unison as your ships pass. and of course herds of animals grazing, and their predators, moving alone amoungst the long grass and trees.... this is how i see it...
it is a fine day, fine even for empyrrean. the sun is shining and the grass is green and fresh. you waste little time in constructing a base of operations, moving your commander to the closest metal deposits. you pass a herd of grazing animals along the way, they barely notice your prescense... only a few lifting their lazy heads in acknowledgment.
it isnt long before you have established yourself and your defences are primed... as the hours pass by you let your thoughts wander, your only company, the sad calls of the birds perching on nearby trees.
your thoughts are suddenly broken as a group of aks burst into the clearing, weapons ablaze. the birds break their song and begin to take flight, spreading their wings and squarking in confusion. the herd raise their heads in unison and then quickly scatter.
the aks, however, stand no chance against your defences and they are soon nothing but piles of twisted, burnt metal... silence soon fills all that you know, until the birds return with their lonely calls.
that really wasnt necessary, but its late and im bored... and i think it gets my point across. imo it would make spring, as a whole, just seem more realistic, and would work great with the wee/mini spring suggestion made by Warlord Zsinj.
animalia
Moderator: Moderators
Maybe not hurds of animals running round... as they be scared away by all the noise anyway, but id love to see maybe birds in the sky, and mybee inseckts hummin round trees... that would rock. You have to make sure you can say which you want to appear in teh map files though... theres no sheep on core prime.
aGorm
aGorm
Unreal Tournament handles "gaia" elements by having a special "flocking" AI that handles basic behavior for birds and such. UT gaia-controlled things are usually cheap 2-D sprites.
For Spring, once an AI class/interface is coded, i can't imagine it would be that much harder to implement some sort of gaia AI, since it is pretty basic.
But again, this is one of those things that may be useful for mods, although not necessarily pertinent to OTA-style play.
For Spring, once an AI class/interface is coded, i can't imagine it would be that much harder to implement some sort of gaia AI, since it is pretty basic.
But again, this is one of those things that may be useful for mods, although not necessarily pertinent to OTA-style play.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Well, in the Total War games, the only animals allowed were flocks of birds.
While these birds did make the game a bit more aesthetically pleasing, they were actually there for a gameplay reason as well.
Birds would fly up and dart away from forests if units were hiding there.
I think this would be a good thing to include. Then as a joke you could let any birds in the vicinity of aircraft be sucked in and explode in a cloud of feathers
The feature would work well with the free cloaking for units motionless inside forests feature, which I advocated.
As for other animals, I think it would be very hard to get these to look good in Spring. I think the option should be there, particularly for mods, to put neutral units in, which can have their own AI attached to them (for example, a wandering AI for sheep).
Personally, what I have always wanted to see in TA is not gaia animals as such, but people. I'd like to see peaceful little huts on hills, with smoke coming out of them, and tiny little people wandering about tending to their business. Then I want to roll my tanks through, and have them running and screaming as I try and kill my enemy, ignoring the huts which flatten beneath my tank treads as I roll through...
While these birds did make the game a bit more aesthetically pleasing, they were actually there for a gameplay reason as well.
Birds would fly up and dart away from forests if units were hiding there.
I think this would be a good thing to include. Then as a joke you could let any birds in the vicinity of aircraft be sucked in and explode in a cloud of feathers
The feature would work well with the free cloaking for units motionless inside forests feature, which I advocated.
As for other animals, I think it would be very hard to get these to look good in Spring. I think the option should be there, particularly for mods, to put neutral units in, which can have their own AI attached to them (for example, a wandering AI for sheep).
Personally, what I have always wanted to see in TA is not gaia animals as such, but people. I'd like to see peaceful little huts on hills, with smoke coming out of them, and tiny little people wandering about tending to their business. Then I want to roll my tanks through, and have them running and screaming as I try and kill my enemy, ignoring the huts which flatten beneath my tank treads as I roll through...
Well these things add to the realism. For example TA fights over planets in a galaxy, well how likely is it that the planets themselves are uninhabited and don't support wildlife.
So yes it would in effect be really GREAT if we'd have wildlife, birds and maybe eventuall a map that supports an animated civilisation of humans or something else with skyscrapers and stuff that you can just completely annihilate with your units. But of course that's maybe asking too much. I would like to see some weird fish or animals or plants introduced into spring to make the worlds a bit more lively.
So yes it would in effect be really GREAT if we'd have wildlife, birds and maybe eventuall a map that supports an animated civilisation of humans or something else with skyscrapers and stuff that you can just completely annihilate with your units. But of course that's maybe asking too much. I would like to see some weird fish or animals or plants introduced into spring to make the worlds a bit more lively.
GAIA units.... You know spring is an engine not a TA rmake, and if anyone did a mdo it might be an idea of theres to implement somethign that without gaia may be impossible. Eitherway I dont see how we would animate features without it or adding some overbloated extra thing to the engine or rewritting things.
Besides, I'd like it if I could have features that responded to thigns nearby, maybe a drawbridge or a forcfield unti perhaps, or ancient defences. Perhaps even half dead untis that've gone haywire.
Besides, I'd like it if I could have features that responded to thigns nearby, maybe a drawbridge or a forcfield unti perhaps, or ancient defences. Perhaps even half dead untis that've gone haywire.
i like the idea of GAIA units, but not animals and such; they would be ridiculously small. your commander is roughly the size of a tree, and a deer or bear would be the size of his foot. They're probably big trees as well. And, according to the TA story, the CORE and ARM have been fighting for thousands of years, and decimated a galaxy. A grass battlefield might be abandoned for a few hundred years, just enough for the ground to level and trees to grow back, but not animal life.
Does anyone remember those fish/sea monster things you had to fight in the Core Contingency Arm campaign? you could have some occassional spawning hostile units on a map, under GAIA command.
Does anyone remember those fish/sea monster things you had to fight in the Core Contingency Arm campaign? you could have some occassional spawning hostile units on a map, under GAIA command.
thats why i said it would be good with mini/wee spring... this would allow for a decent size ratio, and i dont think that we should limit our additions to spring regarding the ta. if nobody wants it in the game it wont happen, this is mainly something that can be added for modding.cabbs wrote:i like the idea of GAIA units, but not animals and such; they would be ridiculously small. your commander is roughly the size of a tree, and a deer or bear would be the size of his foot. They're probably big trees as well. And, according to the TA story, the CORE and ARM have been fighting for thousands of years, and decimated a galaxy. A grass battlefield might be abandoned for a few hundred years, just enough for the ground to level and trees to grow back, but not animal life.
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
- Posts: 1370
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:10
I once had an idea for a game where you don├óÔé¼Ôäót actually CONTROLL anything except the environment. You├óÔé¼Ôäód start with a primitive planet, geologically speaking, and can manipulated the chemical's in the atmosphere and other parts of the planet. Then you could evolve a new race's by tinkering with the compositions of the planet. As your race's thrive and developed you can destroy them with much malicious glee! Cause massive global warming, and melt the ice caps! Create massive plagues that devastate the populace! Decree's the resources of the planet and watch you creations go to each other's throat├óÔé¼Ôäós like RATS in a trap! RATS I SAY!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now onto a topic that is slightly more relevant├óÔé¼┬ª
I think that animalia would be an amazing addition to spring. Just cause it wasent in TA is no reason to not do it (but this is realy a moot point because no one seems to be arguing along that line of argument├óÔé¼┬ª). Also WHY should the units not look good in TA Spring. WHY! We have more poly├óÔé¼Ôäós, better textures and computers that are light year├óÔé¼Ôäós ahead of the computers from a few years ago├óÔé¼┬ª
Why should we confine our game├óÔé¼Ôäós to the past? LOOK TO THE FUTURE!
Now onto a topic that is slightly more relevant├óÔé¼┬ª
I think that animalia would be an amazing addition to spring. Just cause it wasent in TA is no reason to not do it (but this is realy a moot point because no one seems to be arguing along that line of argument├óÔé¼┬ª). Also WHY should the units not look good in TA Spring. WHY! We have more poly├óÔé¼Ôäós, better textures and computers that are light year├óÔé¼Ôäós ahead of the computers from a few years ago├óÔé¼┬ª
Why should we confine our game├óÔé¼Ôäós to the past? LOOK TO THE FUTURE!
Zoombie I hate to tell you this, but thats already been made. Its called SimEarth. Its a little dated, but thats basically what you do. Nurture the world (earth, mars, the moon, etc.) till it develops super advanced life. It is however extremelly dated.
As for life forms in the Spring Engine, I think its a great idea. I haven't looked at the side code, but I imagine it wouldn't be too dificult to add an extra side. The trick is the whole AI issue still. No AI means there isn't much a framework for dealing with GAIA animals.
Also I really like hte idea of little huts, buildings etc. Spring is better than TA at displayinga war raveged landscape because it also has deformable terrain. If buildings, homes and people slowly got destroyed as the battle fought on it would add an even greater sense of epic realism(cool realism,not gameplay sucks realism) to the game.
As for life forms in the Spring Engine, I think its a great idea. I haven't looked at the side code, but I imagine it wouldn't be too dificult to add an extra side. The trick is the whole AI issue still. No AI means there isn't much a framework for dealing with GAIA animals.
Also I really like hte idea of little huts, buildings etc. Spring is better than TA at displayinga war raveged landscape because it also has deformable terrain. If buildings, homes and people slowly got destroyed as the battle fought on it would add an even greater sense of epic realism(cool realism,not gameplay sucks realism) to the game.
Do you know where to get it? I want to develop advanced life... then kill them with a massive rise in greenhouse gasses!Zoombie I hate to tell you this, but thats already been made. Its called SimEarth. Its a little dated, but thats basically what you do. Nurture the world (earth, mars, the moon, etc.) till it develops super advanced life. It is however extremelly dated.
Also i think that maps should have different tech levels. They would go like so.......
Pre-Agriculture: Huts, bow's and superstition
Black Powder: Some guns, smallish city's
Industrial: Large cities, old tanks. Radio! (it would be fun to accidentally pick up the radio broadcasts)
Advanced Tech: Lasers, REALLY large cities
Hive: Nothing BUT city's, with buildings the size of mountains and skyscrapers that are over a mile high! Buildings create sudden death alleys with snipers. Roads are filled with hover car's that crash as K-bots and Tanks rumble through. Aircraft spin tightly through the city blocks. Carefully place explosive's can level buildings! Airplane's smash into Skyscrapers and their piece├óÔé¼Ôäós fall onto screaming pedestrians. Militia begin to fright back!
Now some might say WHY the tech level would be any lower then Advanced and now I├óÔé¼Ôäóm going to tell you... because that├óÔé¼Ôäós the way I am!
See in a massive galaxy, with thousands of worlds colonized and a intergalactic war going on, you├óÔé¼Ôäód expect that some worlds would slip back into previous age's and technology's. Crash Landers, survivors of nuclear wars and other disasters can cause tech to slide backwards...
Also doesn├óÔé¼Ôäót it sound like fun to fight in a hive city!
These Animals would make maps original, because just imagine what strange and bizarre planets people can make if they are given free reign! Some examples would be....
Crystal based life forms that move realy slowly and shatter into a bazillion pieces.
Worlds with virulent bacteria that slowly adapt to certain units and erode them, so Every time a new units is made the bacteria has to evolve to destroy it!
Worlds where acid rains!
Worlds wreaked by meteor showers!
Worlds with a massive world war going on, with primitive army's blasting at each other, who are a little perturbed by these two other powers killing each other.
A Battle where alien's can randomly invade and start blasting everything!
A world that has been blasted into a few pieces by a planet buster bomb. The dying world would be disintegrating, but have plenty of metal.
a map with nearly bottomless pits and low gravity! Suddenly you can just blast them with a plasma hit and they get flung into the pit and slowly fall down, spinning.
A world where machines have taken over the planet and the humans are on the run!
A world where the humans have taken over the planet and the machines are on the run!
And that├óÔé¼Ôäós just what popped into my head while I typed this! Imagine what i could do if I actually put my mind to it!
Edit: I found 24 spelling errors!
Last edited by Zoombie on 11 Jun 2005, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59