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 Post subject: Research
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 01:08 
Conflict Terra Developer
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Joined: 21 Jan 2010, 06:21
Location: Tucson
I've had an idea bouncing around in my head for a while, and thought I'd post what I have now and see if anyone has any feedback before I go all crazy implementing it.

I want to use one of zwzsg's awesome research gadgets (the Advanced version) to change how higher level units in CT are available. Here is a basic rundown of what I'm thinking:

Quote:
* indicates either remodeling a unit
# indicates making a new unit

Mech Cruiser*
- T1 Mechs
- T2 Mechs (locked)
- Ace Mech# (unlocks T2 Mechs)

Tank Cruiser*
- T1 Tanks
- T2 Tanks (locked)
- General Tank# (unlocks T2 Tanks)

Cruiser Beacon
- Factory Cruisers
- Missile Cruiser#
- Transport Cruiser*
- Battlecruiser (locked)
- Commander Cruiser# (unlocks Battlecruiser)


So the biggest thing we're looking at here is the removal of the T2 factory cruisers. Instead there would simply be one mech cruiser and one tank cruiser, and the T2 units from each group would be present in those cruisers. However, they would be locked out until either the Ace Mech or General Tank (WIP names) was built.

If either of those units were killed, the player would have to build another to get back to T2. This would promote protecting them, but I want them to be strong enough that people would want them in a fight (just not stupid crazy strong). It also means players could raid their enemies trying to kill these key units to try and weaken them.

I'm pretty happy with that idea, but a little more uneasy about the relationship between the Battlecruiser and the prospective "Commander Cruiser". The idea is to lock out battlecruisers until later in the game, but a Commander Cruiser would feel redundant compared to the Flagship. If I did go through with this I would probably take out the OP Battle Flagship and replace it with a less-capable but still nice to have Commander Cruiser.

I'd like to know what people think of this. I'm hoping it is more simple than the old TA-ish way of morphing to T2 cruisers. It would be a little more intuitive too I think, with greyed out icons and a message saying "you require X".


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 01:57 
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Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02
Location: cheap kitchen
I always thought cruisers should not be build in a factory but be ordered in some antenna thing and then they kind of enter the athmosphere by flying in from above.


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 02:20 
Conflict Terra Developer
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Joined: 21 Jan 2010, 06:21
Location: Tucson
That would be amazing and if I could have it, I would get it.

But, that requires script fu that I don't know yet. I'm hoping I can someday write it.


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 23 Jan 2012, 02:58 
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08
I always thought big units such as cruisers should be built on the ground, by a mobile construction unit, instead of in a factory.


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2012, 21:07 
Conflict Terra Developer
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Joined: 21 Jan 2010, 06:21
Location: Tucson
Since people (aka Knorke and zwzsg) are more interested in how cruisers are brought into the game, I guess I'll mention what I've been thinking for that.

Ideally, there'd be a building like a big landing pad (badvbeacon as it currently is in the game), you select a cruiser you want, and then instead of it being nano-framed into existence, the finished cruiser descends from above the map and is then controllable by the player when it reaches the ground. (The idea is that it is arriving from orbit or some other high-altitude.)

I played with this a bit by moving the build origin really high up and then having it move down as it is built, but what I found was that if you tell the cruiser to go somewhere right after it is built (something that I imagine almost all if not all people do), and if the cruiser is finished at some point above the average RTS camera position (which I want so it never appears in its nanoframe form) then it moves in a diagonal from that point above to where you tell it to go. I found you could actually have cruisers "built" in your base, and then arrive in an enemy base, no problem at all. So that idea was out.

I had no ideas on this until recently, when I realized that maybe something similar to how CT's meteors are delivered could work. What I keep coming to is sort of bypassing spring's usual build system and just have a cruiser created, and then moved down to the map. But then I wonder how the costs, build times, buttons, and all of the stuff like that would work. I'm sure all of it is very do-able, but it seems like it'd just be completely rebuilding spring's build system in a gadget, just to get away from nano-frames and things being built on build pads.

I'd love to learn how to do this myself, but I feel this is way too ambitious an undertaking for "My first gadget"


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012, 13:48 

Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 13:27
Location: Orbiting reality at +5°
EDIT: Nevermind, I see this was already suggested in another thread. http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27615&start=20


I'm a total newbie when it comes to the capabilities of gadgets and the spring engine, but for what you describe here:

Quote:
I played with this a bit by moving the build origin really high up and then having it move down as it is built, but what I found was that if you tell the cruiser to go somewhere right after it is built (something that I imagine almost all if not all people do), and if the cruiser is finished at some point above the average RTS camera position (which I want so it never appears in its nanoframe form) then it moves in a diagonal from that point above to where you tell it to go. I found you could actually have cruisers "built" in your base, and then arrive in an enemy base, no problem at all. So that idea was out.


Could you not simply modify the cruiser's horizontal movement speed (maybe rotation speed as well?) to 0 (I.E. cannot actually go anywhere, similar to any structure) until its has vertically descended to a useable altitude?

I'm not sure if the vertical movement speed is somehow linked to the movement speed of the unit, which would invalidate this approach, but I'm guessing a gadget could overcome that somehow?

In really bad pseudo-code:

Code:
TempHolder = Cruiser.MovementSpeed
while (Cruiser.Altitude > 100) && (Cruiser.BuildDone == 1):
{
    Cruiser.MovementSpeed = 0
    Cruiser.Altitude = Cruiser.Altitude -1
    wait (100ms)
}
Cruiser.MovementSpeed = TempHolder


Assuming that 100 is the altitude you want user control to be responded to (I.E. the user could issue orders before that point, but since the cruiser can't actually move horizontally, it should seem like it only starts responding once it gets to the operation-area altitude).

Is this possible or too hacky?


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012, 17:58 
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009, 15:09
Location: Sol 3
Is this still relevant? :-)

I'd have a builder build a landing pad, but the part of the model which is the cruiser is underground. Then I'd hide that part and move it quickly up in the air.

Then maybe even show some fancy CEG, because, I don't know, it just dropped out of hyperspace. Right after that make it reappear and start its decent to the surface/landing pad. Easy.

The builder would have 4 pads it can build so it's not ideal. Guess it could be made into how you said with morph. But i don't know if you're familiar with morph. I'm not, it's complexity scares me for now :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2012, 22:12 
Conflict Terra Developer
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Joined: 21 Jan 2010, 06:21
Location: Tucson
Haha, how cruisers are brought into the game isn't 100% relevant anymore, but some (Knorke) say I can do it better...

Currently I have it just as Firestorm describes, in essence. The building pad moves up into the air and then slowly descends as the cruiser is built, finally ending up on the cruiser beacon's landing pad...

Some problems, as Knorke pointed out in the other thread, is that if you cancel the build as the cruiser is descending it just disappears and looks kind of crummy. Of course this is true of all units so I just pass it off as a fact of the game...

Also, it has to descend and arrive at the build pad in time for the shortest build time, which is like 20 seconds I believe. Most of the other cruisers take 40 to 60 seconds to build, so there is a lot of time that the new cruiser is just sitting on the landing pad waiting for it to "take off"

Both of these issues can be dealt with but I don't know how to do it and there are more useful issues for me to invest my time into.


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 Post subject: Re: Research
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2012, 23:56 

Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 22:34
I think, rather than "research", cruisers and other advanced stuff should cost TONS of energy, so that you would really have to invest in generators to make these units. That would make energy more relevent.


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