I would also see a spring 1.0 rather than a spring 85.0. But it's just a number. It's meaningless.
Research says otherwise it has a big impact on impressions, and it influences development, for the same reason it's a bad idea to have v0.99999 approaching but never reaching version 1.
Currently the versioning scheme is getting into smaller and smaller increments, which says "We've not changed much, we have only fixed bugs and changed some minor insignificant numbers", which is not the case at all.
It also indicates a loss of momentum. There's the small kernel of regular people who are oblivious to this ( e.g. most of the people in this thread ), but everyone else isn't.
Certainly, to the untrained eye, you are correct. But on the other hand, what is important is not only impression, but also reputation. Do you think people view the progress as credible if it always shifts up 1 version number? And that each week! With no versions used for bugfixes at all.
I'm thinking mostly on the new policy of Firefox (and spring).
But you are correct, having the next version as 9.679 beta is kind of stupid. Still, I do not want us to go directly to 1.0. How about progressing to 9.68?
Yeah, the sea needs fixing. Most easy solution would be to just scrap it all and implement the ba sea as replacement. Ba sea works quite well.
Just dropping by this thread to post my emphatic resistance to importing BA sea. I find it very shallow, to say the least.
Adding floating mex (ergo viable raiding) may help, removing the sub pen (and if I had my way the missile corvette too) would go a long way to opening up the early game- you can be way less conservative with scout boat wrecks than all the other units, but they can't raid if vettes defend.
I would say at the very least, if you make only one change, nerf/remove uw tidal.
Nice pun. I wrote ba sea and not ota sea, because I didn't want to be labelled a retro-fag. But my experience with ba sea is that it's not very different from ota sea.
What I like about that sea is how it incorporates layers: surface sea is one layer and subsurface sea is another layer. Then air is a third layer, and I also like how those layers interact. For example, in ba sea, a sub is actually a sub and not a ship that has been hacked to seem to be a sub. Or vice versa, like the despised corvette.
But to make xta sea that way is diffucult because of engine limitations. One of those is the fact that there is no under water line of sight, and instead sonar is made to automatically include line of sight. But as any 5 year old kid knows: there's a difference between looking at something and at measuring it with a sonic echo.
But if that limitation were fixed then I'd also like to restore the fibber to its default behaviour.
BA sea is pitiful, OTA sea was not as pitiful, but still, not very good.
Using either of them as a model for a working model of sea balance is utterly flawed.
The problem is that in sea, everything costs more, a lot more, takes longer, and flexibility is much lower than on land. So you cant just go sea without being vulnerable, and with a low economy for a significant portion of the vital early game, so instead you go land to build conbots and cap mexes.
But then this looses you time, and as soon as that happens, the person who got a ship out first comes and blows everything up, the counter being a heavy early investment in a defence of some sort.
Eitherway in 80% of cases, the water game is decided assuming any real effort is made to capture territory at the start and not as a going concern.
The main exceptions to this are when noobs are playing, or in massive XTA games of old, where extreme skill or extreme negligence has conspired to work around these issues with great effort (or stupidity).
My suggestions for sea (applicable to all *A games)
Cheap sea units are too expensive
Cheap sea units usually take too long to build
t1 sea should cost generally as much as t1 land, take the same time to build, and have the same firepower
t2 ships should cost and take the same time as their equivilant t2 units
Long range ships at t1 should be extra and come at a tier 1.5 premium like hovercraft
Long range ships at t2 should take as long and cost as much as roughly the sumos and fatboys of the *A world
The top end ships are either way overpowered or overcosted, they tend not to be both unless they're the big custom ships you didn't get in OTA with 30 turrets, and they're never underpowered cheap things.
From that we can use a lot of the things learnt from land to model the sea game.
Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02 Location: cheap kitchen
imo a big part of water=meh is the choice of maps. I do not like these maps where basically a "one-dimensional water-lane" is put into a landmap, eg
On these maps it is often about being the faster scoutboat spammer (and getting shared metal by team to do so)
Something like this:
plays much better even with current balance.
What I like about that sea is how it incorporates layers: surface sea is one layer and subsurface sea is another layer.
Imo the layers are more "areas" and are as as following: 1) open sea (no land units involved) 2) coast lines (sea and land units fight each other but either side can retreat away from the coast) 3) rivers (sea and land units fight, but because of the narrow space ships can not avoid combat so easily) example is the middle river of Isis Delta:
4) counterpart of rivers are narrow land bridges over water or small islands
Generally I think open water plays very boring. The interessting gameplay happens where sea and land meet, so this should be considered more. For example I think making a land based depthcharge-thing should be the way to hold of early scout spam.
Uploaded a v1.02. Mainly a bugfix release. DT got tiny HP nerf and hammer got accuracy buff. I have very little time for the other changes I have planned at the moment. This version should be stable at least.
Also nice to see people commenting about changes to sea balance, hopefully some slightly more experienced players will chime in too :)
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