View topic - Want some exposure for Spring....


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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011, 12:45 
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Joined: 07 Feb 2005, 21:30
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Forboding Angel wrote:
Also, alienate, hundreds of thousands of people and permanently damage the reputations of the spring games that don't suck and are trying to do it right, while gaining 20 or 30 people who bother to check it out.

Good thing you aren't a marketing manager anywhere.

I wrote spring games not spring engine. If he ruins the name of BA we simply change the name. Couldn't be easier. Plus I'm willing to believe he will understand where we are coming from if we explain the community situation and be a bit less tough on us. It's not like we spent 10 million dollars to develop a shitty game, the negatives here are forgivable considering that people cooperated and worked for free to develop these games(except for some mod makers who went alone).

Good thing I'm not thinking inside of the box like you!
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PostPosted: 20 Dec 2011, 20:31 
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Spring Games should be marketed individually, as they should be packaged. That doesn't mean that you have to disavow any knowledge of spring's existence or the existence of other spring games. Evo certainly doesn't, and in newsposts I have often referred to zk and gundam.

Cheese, the above is out of the box thinking for around here. Which is pretty sad, all things considered.
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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011, 07:35 
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 08:24
85.0 works fairly well and ZK has been setup to work with it. How would we go about contacting TB?
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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011, 09:07 
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Forboding Angel wrote:
Spring Games should be marketed individually, as they should be packaged. That doesn't mean that you have to disavow any knowledge of spring's existence or the existence of other spring games. Evo certainly doesn't, and in newsposts I have often referred to zk and gundam.

Cheese, the above is out of the box thinking for around here. Which is pretty sad, all things considered.


We're a pretty long way from 'marketed and packaged individually'.

I wouldn't even call them "Spring games" yet - I'd stick with "Spring mods", even though it surely ruffles feathers around here. The user experience of Spring is much more like base game and mods than it is engine plus games, as I'm sure everyone realizes if they think about it.

I happen to think this is perfectly fine and dandy (and we can call them "games" if we want to, too). It's nice to be able to play a bunch of different stuff in one place.

You're definitely correct that some sort of "finished product" somewhere in Spring-land would be a good foundation for actual publicity. IMO, the sort of people who would play Spring as it is right now are perfectly capable of finding it on their own.
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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011, 10:05 
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 08:24
Your knowledge is extremely out of date.
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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011, 13:26 
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Joined: 01 Apr 2010, 20:05
Calculation the change of increasing Spring popularity
using an Calculater that exist only in a text file.


Spring Engine devs: Sufficient

Spring Games/Mods: actually there gives no mods, mods are a changes of a Game but all *A Mods are Games from now on. Even though they are a big ripoff

Spring Popularity: OH MY GOD IT IS FALLING!

Suggestion for Improving Spring Popularity:
-Make them an offer that they canno't Refuse : Success chance absolute Sure, Pizza cutter.

-Get in touch with the Mac marketing Manager : Success chance >0%

-Find out Players that quit their *Lobby visit them and give them an Slap : Success chance 90%

-Slap Players only in Vacuum : Success chance 50%

-Get Spring to an Meme <- Chance for success below 0%

-Hire Spambots or an Propaganda minister of you're choice

-Get the president to speak about Spring

-It's cold jeff, how long do i have to write this?

-Micron Wars

-Hire robbers and rob the other games gamer's and replace it with a nice big package of Spring RTS

-Tell the World of awesome Spring Engine is <- actually not representative

-Rename Spring to World of Annihilation or anything else with *Craft


Why Spring is not Popular:

-"OMG" IT IS GAME/MOD DEVS FAULT NOT SPRING ENGINE DEVS

-Updates came to suddenly

-Old websites post older Spring engine that is Older then Old Website.

-Not enough Drama.

-Lack of Public Breakers Manager

-Forget to Patent it

-Spring name is confusing

-lolwtf lobby
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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011, 14:34 
Content Developer
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
Yawn

Ivory:

Mod, modification of what?

Game, define what you believe is required to be a "game"

Otherwise you post lacks context
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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011, 15:13 

Joined: 28 Nov 2011, 03:53
smoth wrote:
Yawn

Ivory:

Mod, modification of what?

Game, define what you believe is required to be a "game"

Otherwise you post lacks context

Did I miss some delicious censorship or are you in fact responding to Karl and not Ivory?
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PostPosted: 26 Dec 2011, 20:47 
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:14
Location: #moddev - join it!
I suspect Felix not Ivory.
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 04:32 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
was a response to felix.

it's ok, soon things will change
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 07:36 
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smoth wrote:
Yawn

Ivory:

Mod, modification of what?

Game, define what you believe is required to be a "game"

Otherwise you post lacks context


I'm talking in the context of user experience.

The user flow of getting Spring thingies much more resembles getting mods for a game than getting a new game that runs on the same engine.

I suppose we could conceivably call it a completely new user experience, since most engines in the commercial game market are modified for each game, while Spring relies on each thingy using the exact same engine, unmodified.

It's all semantics obviously.

But I think the user experience of finding the thingies (or finding Spring) -> downloading Spring -> joining a lobby in which lots of thingies can be played -> playing thingies much more resembles a game->mod relationship than a the ether->game relationship.
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 08:48 
Cursed Zero-K Developer
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Your knowledge is extremely out of date.
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 11:32 
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005, 16:30
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CarRepairer wrote:


Great.

I've checked it out already.

Cool, good work, etc. Put down 1 point for the "game" community. Kind of.

I really have no idea what the problem is at this point. My opinion's out there. It will either be listened to or ignored in a thread that matters not one bit.

But if you want my further opinion - there shouldn't be "Spring publicity" unless we're trying to get game studios to use Spring as an engine. Which, let's face it, as much as we love Spring, they're not - it's yesterday's technology, sometimes the day before's.
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 14:05 
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Joined: 02 Dec 2011, 22:31
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Alright I believe this is my first post, so hello. Anyway I've been following Spring since the beginning long before it was Spring(the engine) and not TA:Spring, so my opinion could be skewed: but I agree that sometimes they(games) feel like different flavors more so than completely seperate games.

IMO the reason is spring lobby(which is standard when you get the portable version of spring), or the fact that when you run the "game"; you are for the most part just loading content into the engine, or "spring.exe"( Not "zero-k.exe" or "ba.exe" or "cursed.exe"). Not to mention a lot of them share resources. I can play the same exact map on every game if I was so inclined.

Personally, The only time I even see the name of the game I want to play is:
1.When I'm selecting what i want to play.
2.In the load screen(which is pretty much, stylistically, the exact same in every game).
3.Maybe possibly in the game, if I really pay attention.

Although, I also have never used a separate game installer, and because of that (like I said earlier) my perspective may be skewed. I guess it all depends on HOW you find the game, which separates them the most.
Anyway that's just some input, and don't take anything to serious :-) .
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 16:03 
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Felix the Cat wrote:
I'm talking in the context of user experience.

The user flow of getting Spring thingies much more resembles getting mods for a game than getting a new game that runs on the same engine.

How so? gundam, KP and ZK all have installers. KP and gundam have single player missions, save/load and their own maps. You could conceivably play KP or gundam and never go in lobby.
Felix the Cat wrote:
I suppose we could conceivably call it a completely new user experience, since most engines in the commercial game market are modified for each game, while Spring relies on each thingy using the exact same engine, unmodified..
That is because it is most people's philosophy to continue to add to the engine or develop lua that extends the engine. I think forking the engine is a stupid thing. One should not be forced to fork the engine.. of course you can tell me all about how the games using the unreal engine should have forked it. I remember even back in '98 when I was a licensed Lithtech developer, we just took the engine and ran with it.
Felix the Cat wrote:
It's all semantics obviously.
Semantics are important. Users see mod and they think there is some base game which there isn't. Of course you could say that iphone games or xna games are mods by your logic.
Felix the Cat wrote:
But I think the user experience of finding the thingies (or finding Spring) -> downloading Spring -> joining a lobby in which lots of thingies can be played -> playing thingies much more resembles a game->mod relationship than a the ether->game relationship.

Extremely dated opinion. This is true for *A but not for many of the projects calling themselves games.

I don't take offense to your post I just think you have a very narrow view which leaves out much of the progress that has happened. I don't know how long you have been gone but things have changed greatly
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 16:04 
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Funkencool wrote:
Personally, The only time I even see the name of the game I want to play is:
1.When I'm selecting what i want to play.
2.In the load screen(which is pretty much, stylistically, the exact same in every game).
3.Maybe possibly in the game, if I really pay attention.

Lurk more. Gundam and KP have their own shortcuts.
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 16:10 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
You know what, guys are douchebags


Code:
first you say "gundam is just TA with gundams" So I say fine, but if I go with the economy I want it won't have an ai...

2ish years of work later.. gundam has it's own economy completely ignoring the internal economy to the engine.

You guys rage about not having an ai...


Fine whatever

Code:
gundam is not a game because it just uses the engine as is..
yeah a few years ago I patched the engine for a gundam specific feature. Much rage happened. I resolved to never do another engine patch.
People come in today and act like the engine has never been modified for a specific game... the unit limits tag and fire platform were specific to gundam's use.


Now the attitude is that gundam is not a game because it uses the central lobby and engine has not split off. There is no pleasing you lot. To split off from the engine means ONLY gundam would get the benifits of whatever changes I make to the engine it would mean that if the changes were worthwhile some engine dev would have to carry them over to then engine and I would have to constantly port changes they make into my fork. It is just a stupid suggestion doubling work load just because you lot want the game to have it's own engine version.. "but smoth gundam doesn't have a gundam.exe" it could I could just fork spring.exe to only show gundam and commanders at the spring start page..

god the ignorant opinions you guys state as fact make me rage and it makes my announcement all the easier.
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 16:16 
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poor smoth...
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 16:41 

Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 03:36
Location: your imagination
Felix the Cat wrote:
But if you want my further opinion - there shouldn't be "Spring publicity" unless we're trying to get game studios to use Spring as an engine. Which, let's face it, as much as we love Spring, they're not - it's yesterday's technology, sometimes the day before's.

Spring from a graphics perspective is lacking a lot, but from a technical perspective there is a ton you take for granted.

Take a look at these articles about supcom:
http://altdevblogaday.com/2011/07/09/sy ... f-desyncs/
http://altdevblogaday.com/2011/07/24/sy ... nc-harder/

Read the woes about desyncs and disconnects. Sure, there have been spring desync problems in the past, but I haven't seen one in ages, and the engine is extremely robust then it comes to handling huge lag spikes. And people routinely play games with upwards of 20-30 players, with 100+ units each. That's insane, there are no true RTS games I know of that allow that many players at once, much less a physics-based RTS.

Quote:
For a player to join mid-game the entire game state would have to be sync’d. If the game has 3000 units that’s just too much.
Not for motherfucking spring it isn't. 8)

Sometimes a player drops, a teammate takes his stuff and then just hands it back to him when he rejoins and catches up. It's really slick, and you just can't do that anywhere else.

Not to mention, I don't think there are any official benchmarks anywhere, but spring engine is fast as hell. I get significantly more FPS than roughly equivalent graphics settings on Starcraft 2 or either Supcom (mostly lowest settings on those two).

Ok, so when it comes to the graphics end, LOS view is ugly as hell and so slow to update (slower than actual LOS), and animations tend to be weak because you are coding by hand and no skeletal animation system, etc etc. So spring isn't the God Engine that will bring all its gamers into their heavenly paradise. It has areas it badly needs improvement to catch up to modern games.

TL;DR
Don't make vague generalizing blanket statements about Spring because you want to be the Cynical Cool Guy Who Sees Things Objectively When Everyone Else Is Confused By Emotional Attachment.
(especially if you haven't played any of the games recently)
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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2011, 17:06 
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Floris wrote:
poor smoth...

Poor anyone who develops anything. People have such high demands based on such unrealistic assumptions and fooled by the buzzword double speak of the industry.
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