View topic - Balanced Annihilation V7.20



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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 19:55 
Balanced Annihilation Maintainer
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006, 18:46
Changelog 7.19 --> 7.20 wrote:
- Fixed Commanders starting on the edge of the startbox being teleported into the middle.
- Fixed a healthbars bug (negative display).
- Fixed a load of incorrect model footprints which clashed with movedefs and may have caused bad pathing (mainly affected Sea).
- Added dynamic hitsphere gadget for units such as Viper (thanks Deadnight Warrior).
- Fixed some building footprint sizes / yardmaps (thanks Deadnight Warrior).
- Fixed buggy targetting behaviour caused by (engine) BadTargetCategory issue, most noticable on Commander, Slasher, Samson,
- Added 'Air Comblast Full Damage' modoption (default on), disable to have an airbourne commander make a reduced complosion.
- Updated Mex Upgrader gadget (thanks Deadnight Warrior) + fixed some global lua errors.
- Re-added minimum builddistance of 128.
- FFA Mode now gives anyone who drops after 8 minutes a grace period of 3 minutes to reconnect before destroying their units.
- Labs should now only play their building sounds in LOS to avoid giving away their type.

- Fixed cormex script (thanks bartvbl).
- Arm Metal Makers sphere now spins when its on.
- Arm Dragon's Eye buildtime reduced 50%.
- Core Dragon's Eye buildtime reduced 50%.
- Arm Twilight energy cost reduced 20%.
- Core Exploiter energy cost reduced 20%.

- Arm & Core Construction Ships should now maneuver better.

- Arm Stumpy energycost increased (1746->1921).

- Arm Pack0 cloak cost reduced (20->12).

- Core Punisher targetmoveerror removed from low trajectory mode.
- Arm Guardian targetmoveerror removed from low trajectory mode.

- Tech 1 fighters should no longer chase ground units unless ordered to.

- Removed the 'Fire Delay' option for Screamer, Mercury, Chainsaw, Eradicator.
- Added some automatic targetting code to the above missile towers ('beta').
- Arm Flakker energycost reduced 30%.
- Core Cobra energycost reduced 30%.
- Mobile and Static Flak damage vs fighters doubled.
- Arm Mercury energycost and buildtime reduced 30%.
- Arm Mercury missile no longer collides with friendly units.
- Core Screamer energycost and buildtime reduced 30%.
- Core Screamer missile no longer collides with friendly units.

- Arm Phoenix bomb damage reduced (250->210).
- Arm Tsunami bombs dropped per run reduced (8->7).
- Core Hurricane bomb damage reduced (337->283).
- Core Maelstrom bombs dropped per run reduced (8->7).
- Core Advanced Construction Aircraft workertime increased (80->120).
- Arm Advanced Construction Aircraft workertime increased (80->120).
- Core Krow flying energy cost removed, cruise altitude raised (60->80).
- Core Krow frontal laser damage increased (170->250).
- Arm Dragonfly weapon paralyzer damage decreased (64000->15000), reload time reduced (10-8).
- Arm Dragonfly weapon paralyzetime reduced (20->15).
- Arm Liche bomb no longer instantly kills commanders with impulse.
- Arm Liche bomb special damage vs commanders raised (1550->2300)

- Core Reaper energycost reduced 15%, buildtime reduced 15%.
- Arm Bulldog energycost reduced 15%.

- Core Advanced Construction Kbot workertime increased (140->180).
- Arm Advanced Construction Kbot workertime increased (140->180).
- Arm Fido energycost and buildtime reduced 10%.
- Arm FARK HP increased (200->300), small autoheal added, repair speed increased (120->150).
- Arm FARK can now build Dragon's Eye, Marky, Eraser.
- Arm Invader velocity increased (2.31->2.8).
- Core Roach velocity increased (2.2->2.7).
- Core Skuttle velocity increased (1.35->1.75).

- Arm Pit Bull cloak cost reduced (20->16)
- Arm Ambusher cloak cost reduced (40->24)
- Core Doomsday Machine given its own red/green lasers, roughly same dps.

- Arm Marauder weapon damage increased (185->215).
- Arm Bantha hand cannon damage increased (336->365).
- Arm Bantha self D explosion AOE increased (960->1280).
- Arm Bantha death explosion AOE increased (432->600), damage increased.
- Arm Vanguard hp reduced (18000->15000).
- Arm Vanguard energycost reduced 20%.
- Core Krogoth head laser AOE increased, dps increased, energy per shot lowered.
- Core Krogoth rockets dps improved, effects improved.
- Core Krogoth hand cannons small impulse added.


Please report any bug reports, feedback or suggestions here...

Download Balanced Annihilation V7.20

Have Fun!


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 20:18 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
Location: You are going to die anyway, hurry up and do it.
Looks like a lot of work.


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 20:19 
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39
Location: UK - England
Hurrah! Good stuff Fatty, good to see BA still being cared for :-)


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 20:33 
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 13:49
Location: Core Prime IA
Sounds good :wink:

PS: upload to modinfo would be great, easy to compare mods there.


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 22:49 
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005, 02:58
Location: In Alaska Bridge to nowhere land.
Meanwhile, Juggernaut gets defeated by dragon teeth.

Everything else is good.


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 22:57 
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20
I like almost every single changes (going toward good direction). You listen to all the discussion about balance. Thanks for that.


About t2 bomber I would have keep same damage but increase reload time.
Need to play before saying anything else though.



Noruas wrote:
Meanwhile, Juggernaut gets defeated by dragon teeth.

Everything else is good.



+1


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 23:11 
Modeler
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53
Location: at front, llt pushing
cruise altitude raised (60->80).

what does it mean ? (krow)

also, im not really happy with dragonfly nerf and lack of it for drones, but meh.

anyway, one of the best changelog ever. me loving u long time!


small request - could u make some small gagdet for screamer/mercury that will prvent them from shooting same unit ? without delay it might be problematic. if 1 missle hits target and second is fired at the same time, make second aim another unit or its kinda wasted :/


Last edited by Wombat on 08 Jan 2011, 23:20, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 23:11 

Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 21:27
Ba forever, it just keeps getting better. I have nothing to say about balance, I think BA is great even if some issues never fix. Love how fark can make radar and jammer bots :D

edit: what does the workertime value affect?


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 23:49 
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Joined: 17 Sep 2010, 14:49
what's up with these hitbox changes? can you list all units affected... Bomber can kill solar for example in 1 pass and leave no wreck, what's the point in such changes, was it intended?

Otherwise the listed changes seem nice, t1 fighter change is only significant bad thing I think.

What was the problem with aa turrets delay though? I though it was really good mechanism with just the problem that player issued attack command shouldnt have been delayed. It was simple and intuitive, and wholly under players discretion unlike some targeting ai, which you can't really tell how it works exactly by just someone explaining it to you.

And don't nerf blades ofc, almost only air unit that's interesting to use :D


Cruise altitude means how high it flies


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PostPosted: 08 Jan 2011, 23:59 
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53
Location: at front, llt pushing
meh, thought so, does it mean that krow cannot be dguned anymore ? >> plz no...


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 00:02 
Balanced Annihilation Maintainer
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006, 18:46
Johannes wrote:
what's up with these hitbox changes? can you list all units affected... Bomber can kill solar for example in 1 pass and leave no wreck, what's the point in such changes, was it intended?


Wasn't intended, the hitboxes were changed with a spring release months ago and a gadget to set them back to how they were was added, but this wasn't entirely accurate as I understand the new gadget is supposed to be closer to how it used to be.

I'll have a look at the bomber thing on solar tho..

Wombat wrote:
meh, thought so, does it mean that krow cannot be dguned anymore ? >> plz no...


You can still dgun it it just doesnt clip the top of fusions as much now - 20 is not very far in spring!


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 06:33 

Joined: 04 Sep 2010, 03:19
These look like very positive changes. Can't wait to play it.


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 14:50 
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Joined: 07 Dec 2008, 02:35
Overall a good update, heading in the right direction. It would be too much to write about every change I liked, so here is the list of changes I don't like:

Fixed a load of incorrect model footprints which clashed with movedefs and may have caused bad pathing (mainly affected Sea).
Good work fixing the mismatches, however in my opinion you've gone about it the wrong way. Instead of changing the pathing class of the unit to match the units size, you've altered the units size to match the pathing. The difference between the approaches is that altering the units size effects balance in unintentional ways, the biggest of which is the probably the janus, which has gone from being a 3x3 unit to a 2x2, letting you pack 50% more onto a given line.

Also, while you've fixed the units that were pathing as if they were smaller, you havn't fixed units which path as if they were bigger, meaning they will drive around gaps that they could fit through. (The units in question are: Eraser, Bantha, Dragon's Claw, Construction Ship, Fatboy, Jammer, Pincer, Skimmer, Vanguard, Spider, Invader, Construction Ship, Garpike, Roach, Croc, Copperhead, Scrubber, Spectre, KrogTaar, Shiva, Banisher)

For a tiny performance bonus you can also remove the hdboat8 moveclass

Added dynamic hitsphere gadget for units such as Viper (thanks Deadnight Warrior).
Check the arm solar, it's open hitsphere is ridiculously massive. Recommend a low box that allows LLTs to fire past.

Arm Metal Makers sphere now spins when its on.
Too subtle, given that the thing that spins is an approximation of a circle the rotation isn't noticeable at normal zoom.

Arm Phoenix bomb damage reduced (250->210).
Core Hurricane bomb damage reduced (337->283).

Right direction in that it is a nerf (albeit tiny), but doesn't address any of the key problems people have with T2 bombers, damage is still more than enough given the AoE, cost, etc.

Arm Liche bomb no longer instantly kills commanders with impulse.
Arm Liche bomb special damage vs commanders raised (1550->2300)

Why did you change this, nobody had a problem with it, and who doesn't love bouncing commanders? Hardly a balance issue given a liche costs the equivalent of 5 hurricanes.

Arm Vanguard hp reduced (18000->15000).
Arm Vanguard energycost reduced 20%.

15% health reduction: Quarter of a step forward...
7% cost reduction: ... and one step back

Core Krogoth head laser AOE increased, dps increased, energy per shot lowered.
Shiny effects are nice, but there is a theme in BA that high-damage lasers are all blue. It's weird having a 5500 damage laser look like the 500 damage laser of the termite.
Also, the krogs vertical rocket travels extremely high, twice that of the dominator, it'd be nice if it stayed onscreen.

Other:
- Doomsday script is broken (Doesn't fully open)
- RedUI chat console is broken by the [f=#] thing in recent spring, yes it is fixed in the latest version of spring, but it is a non-mandatory update so a lot of people won't get it. Fix is easy (if you release a 7.21 before 82.8 ):
Code:
function widget:AddConsoleLine(msg, priority)
    msg = msg:match('%[f=[0-9]+%] (.*)') or msg
    ...


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 15:15 
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Joined: 11 Jan 2008, 16:55
Yeah the lich change is a bit weird.
On one hand not bouncing is a bit less randomness but its so cool and usually it does bounce so perhaps it was a bit unnessesary.


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 16:00 
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 14:20
The reason most of the player dont like this change is following: As noobium pointed out, 5 bombers do the same work than a liche... but only if the com is not clock:

With the ghost radar widget, player can spot commander using ghost radar widget if it has been spotted once (some poeple might call it "cheat" ?) and forcefire liche in the neigboorhood of the commander icon and kill him. You cannot do that with bomber since AoE is not high enough.

Ofc poeple always say : "I dont use this widget, I saw an alone spot on the map and I though it was commander"

Only point to prevent that is to jam. If you are arm, that works since you can clock jammer, if you are core, on bomber just in front of the liche, bombing the jammer will do the work and liche will kill the jammless clock commander.


So I conclude this change was mean to prevent "cheat", not to "remove the fun", except if fun=cheat ofc.


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 16:09 
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39
Location: UK - England
Niob did his research, all those points are sound. I had the issue yesterday of Storms not being able to shoot a Pitbull when the Pit was closed, at all.


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 16:20 
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Joined: 07 Dec 2008, 02:35
albator wrote:
You cannot do that with bomber since AoE is not high enough.

If you know where the commander is, you can kill it with 2 hurricanes. With 5 and a line attack you seriously cannot miss. Also add in the fact your bombers can dodge to avoid AA, have more HP, and if you fail to kill the com they completely destroy all units around it, among other benefits.

Jazcash wrote:
Niob did his research, all those points are sound. I had the issue yesterday of Storms not being able to shoot a Pitbull when the Pit was closed, at all.

Just looked into this, basically the collision volume changes but the center (where units aim at) doesn't. In the case of the pitbull the entirety of the collision volume is below the center point when closed, which means projectiles aimed at the center point don't connect with the collision volume and carry right through.


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 16:33 
Balanced Annihilation Maintainer
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006, 18:46
Yeah I'm gonna revert the Liche change, was already speaking with some people in lobby about it.

The reasoning was that the mechanic it uses to kill a com in one hit was a bug (the coms mass = falling 1 ft = death) so I reasoned that it had to be fixed but in hindsight no it doesn't.

Please keep reporting any hitsphere problems will fix in next patch.


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 17:02 
Supreme Annihilation Maintainer
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Joined: 11 Jan 2008, 16:55
albator wrote:
I like almost every single changes (going toward good direction). You listen to all the discussion about balance. Thanks for that.


About t2 bomber I would have keep same damage but increase reload time.
Need to play before saying anything else though.



Noruas wrote:
Meanwhile, Juggernaut gets defeated by dragon teeth.

Everything else is good.



+1


Oh no ill make 2 jammers than...or more likely ill make 4 since they are dirt cheap anyway.
Those reasons are nab reasons imo.


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2011, 17:19 
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Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 18:29
Location: Netherlands
Great release.

Well done.


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