View topic - Random WIP 2006-2011



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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 01:15 
Modeler
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008, 21:55
texture is still too noisy in new pic. It's not just the teamcolor part, the whole thing is noisy and unclear.


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 01:35 
Zero-K Developer

Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22
Hoi wrote:
His original:
Image

Your version:
Image

Not what you make it out to be.

Among other things we are using normal maps now, which certainly make the model brighter, and a higher res texture based on WiE's original (the one you linked to is WIE's lower res edit).


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 04:18 
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Saktoth wrote:
Not what you make it out to be.

Among other things we are using normal maps now, which certainly make the model brighter, and a higher res texture based on WiE's original (the one you linked to is WIE's lower res edit).


Normal maps and high res textures are supposed to make it look better



if they make it look worse don't use them


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 14:32 
Imperial Winter Developer

Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 07:59
harharhar he's ours arharharhar :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 14:36 
Zero-K Developer

Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22
Warlord Zsinj wrote:
harharhar he's ours arharharhar :mrgreen:
Yeah, like you need the talent (I hate you). Hey, maybe you can lend him back for all that highly useful and productive and helpful invaluable playtesting google and i did? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 15:17 
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Joined: 10 May 2009, 11:27
Location: on new sidney
you know when someone captures a modeler you must kill it then rez it.

only way to be yours again :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 19:24 
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12
Location: Never go full Retro-ard! You just don't do it.
i always believed you had to eat the hands of the person, to get the skill. It worked for my ancestors, who lunched there enemys brainz.


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 19:59 
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 21:59
Location: small cars
models fine, don't bother listening to the do-nothings. if they have that much of an issue with the texture they can fix it themselves; CA is a community project after all

as long as it looks good from a playing distance, you're golden


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 21:19 
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PicassoCT wrote:
i always believed you had to eat the hands of the person, to get the skill. It worked for my ancestors, who lunched there enemys brainz.



hahaha ;D are you mayan or aztec?


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 21:41 
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 11:43
KaiserJ wrote:
models fine, don't bother listening to the do-nothings. if they have that much of an issue with the texture they can fix it themselves; CA is a community project after all

as long as it looks good from a playing distance, you're golden

Sure they could make their own version, but probably they don't care enough. But they did care enough to offer their input, which can be pretty useful as well. Not that you have to agree with peoples criticism, but should at least listen and respect it, they're trying to help you improve your product after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2010, 22:59 
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true enough; id just rather see sak spend time working on other models rather than retexturing this one :P

i figure if people feel its bad; at least provide some of their knowledge and give some direct suggestions how to improve it, rather than just general statements about the quality

*edit : i really like the texture, and would like to have this knowledge as well, so i can use it maybe in my own work


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 00:30 
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KaiserJ wrote:
i figure if people feel its bad; at least provide some of their knowledge and give some direct suggestions how to improve it, rather than just general statements about the quality


I did.

Image

Look at that. It's brown and noisy. I said it was noisy, so the direct suggestion would obviously be removing the noise. I don't know what's causing it. Diffuse? Texture 2? Bad normal maps? I have no intentions of cleaning other people's mess and I shouldn't, I have my own work to work on. I give my advice and if he can remove the noise then he can also do that/prevent it in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 04:33 
Zero-K Developer

Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22
Yeah, you're clearly exposing yourself as having no idea of what you're talking about, and to having absolutely no knowledge of the model as it looks in CA.
ImageDoes that look brown? Even slightly? It is the SAME texture as the one in the Tabula shot. The only difference is small portions for the halberd and glow inside the backpack. Otherwise, its identical, identically GREY.

What you are seeing is Tabulas red lighting! That is all! As for 'noise' the only 'noise' there is WiE's very high frequency texturing detail or jpg compression. Again, does the picture above look 'noisy'? Advice and criticism is fine, great, but when you're talking out of your arse and identifying the maps lighting as the fault of the texture you're just making yourself look foolish.

The tabula shot is really not a great shot to show off the spherebot texture, but thats not the point: the point is to comment on the addition of the halberd and the backpack as design elements, on whether this is enough to differentiate it from the regular spherebot, whether they in themselves look good, etc. Tabula is a good map to show this because the darker, muted, red lightning makes the glow on the halberd and backpack more noticable.


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 05:27 
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 22:04
Location: The only way to win is not to play.
I think you might actually both be right...the reddish lighting on tabula increases the visible contrast of the high-frequency noise in the base texture due to the fact that red to black transitions are much more visible than gray to black ones. I'd convert the images to a perceptually uniform colour space like LUV and take the laplacian of them to show the difference in contrast but I am much too lazy.

Also, before you go attacking someone for his perception of a particular texture I suggest you compare it to your own perception with the same image, rather than the same texture in a completely different lighting environment.

Hoi wrote:
This text is blue

Saktoth wrote:
No you're wrong this text is red you have no idea what you're talking about. It's the SAME font as you are using.


If a texture looks bad on in only slightly atypical (red coloured) lighting setup then the texture probably needs some work - Hoi simply misdiagnosed the problem as being related to your new addition as he had not previously scrutinized the texture in detail in that lighting.


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 06:33 
Zero-K Developer

Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22
Hoi wrote:
They are not the same. It's not the map lightning, it's just not the same. His version does not have the noise and other things, yours does.
I am not 'attacking' anyone for their perception of the texture, he is attacking me for 'ruining' WiE's texture. He is free to get it wrong and misdiagnose the problem, but it is stubborn in the extreme to refuse to recognize when i point it out (with pictures) that the issue is not the texture. WiE's original which i am being attacked over looks just as brown under those lightning conditions. Hoi, in drawing incorrect parallels between a shot of a unit under white light with one under red light and asking 'Why doesnt it look like the first one?' is the one drawing false comparisons.

Quote:
If a texture looks bad on in only slightly atypical (red coloured) lighting setup then the texture probably needs some work

There isnt anything that can be done, really, other than throwing a glow map in there which will help to mute or ignore the maps lighting settings, to make it less red on Tabula. If you've any suggestions there, feel free to offer them, but the truth is at the standard play distance the model is perfectly visible on tabula (mostly due to the glow on the teamcolour, which is the part that stands out at a distance). The map lighting is that way to give a twilight feel to the map and units, and yes, unfortunately some of them will look brown or pink as a result. Its quite misguided to try and 'fix the brownness' in the texture, and it is a ridiculous and misguided piece of criticism.

There may be valid problems with the texture (say, the teamcolour may have too much glow, as guessmyname pointed out- but again that helps with distance visibility) but noise and brownness are not among them.


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 07:19 
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Joined: 30 Jun 2008, 23:08
Location: Germany
when u knew about the map related light, why do u make pics on these map?


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 09:54 
Engines Of War Developer

Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 22:39
Location: Germany, the EU
Maybe because like he's said what he wanted to highlight/point out was something different ?
Saktoth wrote:
The tabula shot is really not a great shot to show off the spherebot texture, but thats not the point: the point is to comment on the addition of the halberd and the backpack as design elements, on whether this is enough to differentiate it from the regular spherebot, whether they in themselves look good, etc. Tabula is a good map to show this because the darker, muted, red lightning makes the glow on the halberd and backpack more noticable.
Really, I think Saktoth's been given enough grief on that one pic. To be honest I'm not sure I would have bothered continueing to answer to those responses...


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 12:35 
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12
Location: Never go full Retro-ard! You just don't do it.
This is no red light, this is pink light, are you all colourblind? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2010, 17:26 
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 21:59
Location: small cars
anyways i really like the look of both the backpack and the energy blade.... if i had a suggestion, it would be to perhaps apply a color gradient to the blade, so that it will never exactly match the teamcolor sections;

otherwise shit looks cash


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 Post subject: Re: Random WIP
PostPosted: 29 Jul 2010, 01:37 
Zero-K Developer

Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 13:22
The blade will have a lups trail, which should help. Take a look at the armawac in CA for an idea of what that might look like. I dont know how it will go on the blade, but i suspect: cool. In fact i am considering not even bothering to edit the texture at all, and doing all the glow and effects using lups.


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