View topic - Mines: naval (and others)


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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 16:15 
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After reading about the how the south Korean warship was sunk, I have discovered that level of sophistication with mines, wikipedia has a lot of information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine

I find it particularly interesting how naval mines can be attached with a steel wire, which drags the mines towards the ship when it passes, and thereby creates a twosided explosion to it.

It's also noteworthy that in many occasions, a single mine of torpedo can sink a large ship, such as a carrier. Also, the wikipedia article seems to back the way the cost of mining and clearing them works in xta:
Quote:
The cost of producing and laying a mine is usually anywhere from 0.5% to 10% of the cost of removing it, and it can take up to 200 times as long to clear a minefield as to lay it

So, in light of this, I wonder if naval mines aren't in fact too weak in xta, as one mine usually only can destroy T1 units.

I only discussed naval mines, but feel free to discuss land mines as well..
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 16:22 

Joined: 22 Jul 2008, 01:30
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in before pint rages about sub pen
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 17:10 

Joined: 29 Oct 2008, 15:55
Dont forget that most mines do not have FF recognition, and are simply area-denial zone.

Also shelling a minefield with depth charges/artillery will clear it up, due to shockwaves having sufficient strength to detonate conventional fuses.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 17:35 
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Jools wrote:
It's also noteworthy that in many occasions, a single mine of torpedo can sink a large ship, such as a carrier. Also, the wikipedia article seems to back the way the cost of mining and clearing them works in xta:
Quote:
The cost of producing and laying a mine is usually anywhere from 0.5% to 10% of the cost of removing it, and it can take up to 200 times as long to clear a minefield as to lay it

So, in light of this, I wonder if naval mines aren't in fact too weak in xta, as one mine usually only can destroy T1 units.

Sad to hear that mines are as fucked up in real life as in XTA :/

I wonder what is wikipedias stance on com morphs
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 18:35 
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thing is when you lay a mine fields our stuff are also in risk of getting hit..in xta or any other ta mod you can see your own mines and thye wont blow when one of your units passes on them.
Another factor is the amount of space available for fleets or ground units to bypass minefields...there is also the danger minefields create after the war...
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 18:54 
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According to that article, mines can be calibrated to go off according to the acoustic fingerprint of a specific vessel or vehicle, or several of them, which would motivate the discriminating behaviour in xta.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 19:00 
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than i guess its the amount of space...also im guessing during WW2 mines were much simpler?
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 19:20 
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Yes, I think that's correct, that they were mostly contact mines.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 19:32 

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Dont forget please that it takes what? 6-8 rocko missiles to kill a stumpy? IT usually takes 1 anti-tank missile to completely demolish a tank in RL
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 19:41 
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That's true. One starts to wonder why most games have an 'energy bar', which has to be depleted before the unit dies, when in real life one good hit would suffice. It's not easier to program even, as one could with relative ease implement a statistically based death scenario.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 19:54 

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Jools wrote:
That's true. One starts to wonder why most games have an 'energy bar', which has to be depleted before the unit dies, when in real life one good hit would suffice. It's not easier to program even, as one could with relative ease implement a statistically based death scenario.


because it'd be crap if everything died in 1 shot
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 20:26 
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But it'd be realistic crap at least!
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 20:49 
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I meant not that everything dies in one shot, but that there is a small probability for it
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 21:01 
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Quote:
I wonder what is wikipedias stance on com morphs
lol

real ships do not have a healthbar and explodes into pieces when it reaches zero. they get leaks, sink fast or slowly, capsize or maybe just the rudder/propeller gets damaged. real sea warfare is very different to spring/games. mines with a "critical hit" ability (i think thats what you mean?) will not make xta more realistic...just different.
Some games have units burning or bleeding, slowly losing health after being hit until they heal/get repaired. Something similiar might be possible with "sinking" ships but would it be fun or just annoying? I dont know.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 21:38 
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Probability like that in a game like XTA just makes any actions you plan unreliable (outside of your control), thereby forcing you to porc up till you have bigger numbers to make a reliable army again.

For example one ship would be useless because by chance it may break down at first shot, so you need to save up for multiple ships so there's only a tiny probability that 100% of your army explodes on the first confrontation.

If you draw it to the extreme it would become pure luck and (almost) no skill, like e.g. Risk, where you can attack with 30 units against 10 or so and lose your complete army because the defender throws double six five times in a row.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 22:52 
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I guess that makes sense. However, Risk is till fun.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 22:58 
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JohannesH wrote:
But it'd be realistic crap at least!
It's only realist if the tank took one month to manufacture.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 23:44 
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zwzsg wrote:
JohannesH wrote:
But it'd be realistic crap at least!
It's only realist if the tank took one month to manufacture.


Isnt that a bit extreme? I doubt a T34 took a month to make.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 23:50 
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Sorry, we're talking about ships, not tanks, here. So a couple year buildtime would be more in line with reality.
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PostPosted: 27 May 2010, 23:53 
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You saying it would take several years to create ships in a total war scenario?
Where all the economy is working towards making more armaments,with today's manufacturing technology.
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