For usability purposes, I would suggest replacing the message the host sends you (your shareid preference has been set to 'foo') with another one-message explanation like:
You are now on coop team "foo". Get other players to say "!coop foo" and you will coop together if you are on the same team.
That should be no less annoying, since it's still one message. To emphasize it's a string, I suggest including the quotes around foo.
I've improved !coop answer messages:
Code:
<bibim> !coop aaa <Spads3> You are now in coop group "aaa" (other players who enter "!coop aaa" will coop with you if they are in the same team)
For usability purposes, I would suggest replacing the message the host sends you (your shareid preference has been set to 'foo') with another one-message explanation like:
You are now on coop team "foo". Get other players to say "!coop foo" and you will coop together if you are on the same team.
That should be no less annoying, since it's still one message. To emphasize it's a string, I suggest including the quotes around foo.
I've improved !coop answer messages:
Code:
<bibim> !coop aaa <Spads3> You are now in coop group "aaa" (other players who enter "!coop aaa" will coop with you if they are in the same team)
Thanks, that looks wonderful.
Now I just need to figure out an easy way to vote for the autohost to put me and my coop buddies on the same team even though we don't have clan tags. Doing !rebalance ten times and hoping to get lucky just doesn't quite cut it
I've just implemented the "clan" mode: clan players who didn't set their "shareId" preference will have their shareId set to their clan tag by default => clan players coop by default, but they can opt-out by setting their shareId preference to another secret value.
Great. I've just updated to testing and was about to apply my handmade patch But decided to read forum first.
bibim wrote:
I think I will implement an optional database interface for SPADS, so that all autohosts running on same host (or having access to a given database) could share their dynamic data (user preferences, map boxes, bans ...), instead of using .dat files loaded in memory.
That would be nice. Maybe integrate it with lobby account somehow?
Now I just need to figure out an easy way to vote for the autohost to put me and my coop buddies on the same team even though we don't have clan tags. Doing !rebalance ten times and hoping to get lucky just doesn't quite cut it
Hmm, what's the point of cooping if autohost balances coops as usual? Cooping is an invisible clan tag i think and must be treated the same. If i liked playing with some guy(ex. YokoZar :) ) but we don't want to append/change clantags, but just wanna play in one team with one id when on one server?
Finally, I think the manual ID selection command could lead to somple complex cases regarding auto-balancing: for instance, when 2 players do "!coop 1" they must be in the same ally team. But if they have different clan tags then all the players of both clans should be in the same ally team. What if teams aren't big enough to contain the 2 clans ? Should we break the coop or one of the clans ? We would have to add some sort of priorities on all these constraints which could become quite confusing for players... Moreover, it would become even easier for players to trigger totally unbalanced games: currently they have to use clan tags to be sure to be in the same team, and usually players don't rename between each battle just because they saw a good player they want to be with. But with a !coop command all they would have to do is choose the same coop id. I think there would be even more aguing in battle lobby about players totally breaking the balance by using !coop command, and it could take quite long to start a game...
You could, of course, just treat the !coop id's not as separate clans but instead on a per-team basis. That way if everyone in 6 person clan foo types !coop 1 then there will be two separate coops on the different teams when it's a 4v4. So here you'd balance normally and only afterwards look at the !coop requests.
Now I just need to figure out an easy way to vote for the autohost to put me and my coop buddies on the same team even though we don't have clan tags. Doing !rebalance ten times and hoping to get lucky just doesn't quite cut it
Hmm, what's the point of cooping if autohost balances coops as usual? Cooping is an invisible clan tag i think and must be treated the same. If i liked playing with some guy(ex. YokoZar :) ) but we don't want to append/change clantags, but just wanna play in one team with one id when on one server?
It seems like there are two separate cases here - large groups of willing coopers (who would be fine with being split into separate teams), and small groups of coopers who really want to be together.
It would be nice to have the "preserve coops" balance mode as something that could be voted on. So instead of doing !cbalance I could, say, !coopbalance (possibly requiring a vote), and then the autohost would sort that way. All that's really required is another balance mode in the list (clan, rank, coop); although this does lead to 6 different ways of possibly sorting them.
Now I just need to figure out an easy way to vote for the autohost to put me and my coop buddies on the same team even though we don't have clan tags. Doing !rebalance ten times and hoping to get lucky just doesn't quite cut it
Hmm, what's the point of cooping if autohost balances coops as usual? Cooping is an invisible clan tag i think and must be treated the same. If i liked playing with some guy(ex. YokoZar :) ) but we don't want to append/change clantags, but just wanna play in one team with one id when on one server?
It seems like there are two separate cases here - large groups of willing coopers (who would be fine with being split into separate teams), and small groups of coopers who really want to be together.
It would be nice to have the "preserve coops" balance mode as something that could be voted on. So instead of doing !cbalance I could, say, !coopbalance (possibly requiring a vote), and then the autohost would sort that way. All that's really required is another balance mode in the list (clan, rank, coop); although this does lead to 6 different ways of possibly sorting them.
On second thought, you wouldn't need to deal with 6 sorting possibilities if the logic was instead an (optional) "treat coops as clans". That'd keep everything pretty clean, although you'd need to deal with the edge case of two different clans having individual members cross-coop (A1 coop with B1, A2 coop with B2 would need to balance the 1's together rather than clan A together)
To answer some questions I've been asked in lobby concerning SPADS and the Spring version upgrade, here is what you can do to upgade your autohost to new Spring version:
On Linux: - Recompile Spring and install it somewhere (actually you just need to compile unitsync and spring-dedicated, and generate "gamedata" (Spring base files)). - Update your LD_LIBRARY_PATH and the paths in spads.conf for new Spring version if needed - update your SPADS installer script so that it contains the latest changes which could be required to recompile the unitsync interface from latest Spring sources: "./update.pl <spadsRelease> -a" - launch the PerlUnitSync module generation: "./spadsInstaller.pl -g"
On Windows: - update the "springDataDir" setting in spads.conf if you installed the new Spring version in a different place - restart SPADS
Last edited by bibim on 25 Aug 2009, 15:16, edited 2 times in total.
It would also be nice if people could designate themselves as a team and get treated as a clan for balance purposes. For instance, I say !foundteam Foo then my buddies all !jointeam Foo and then I'm required to approve them joining my team. Giving the founder approval and kick permissions for the team would definitely be nice but isn't 100% necessary.
It would also be nice if people could designate themselves as a team and get treated as a clan for balance purposes. For instance, I say !foundteam Foo then my buddies all !jointeam Foo and then I'm required to approve them joining my team. Giving the founder approval and kick permissions for the team would definitely be nice but isn't 100% necessary.
You both change your names to have a temporary clantag?
You both change your names to have a temporary clantag?
That requires having to log out of Spring and log back in. It also leaves your original name open to "squatting" by griefers. This would be much easier and much faster.
You both change your names to have a temporary clantag?
That requires having to log out of Spring and log back in. It also leaves your original name open to "squatting" by griefers. This would be much easier and much faster.
Have you tried to ask somebody to type /rename? People just ignore and keep typing !coop xxx thinking it should get them in one team... Also there's a chance of closed room after renaming. btw, people new to coop are typing aaa: !coop bbb bbb: !coop aaa i'm tired explaining them about identity :) They usually say something about wierd syntax.
[teh]GrumpyOldMan suggested an idea for balancing coops. We came to conclusion that team with some cooped players has advantage over same team without any coops. So here's our idea: treat cooped players rank as max rank in coop + number of players in that coop. Or just increase each player rank in coop by number of cooped players. Or something similar.
Currently teams are balanced before looking at coop requests (i.e., it's not because two players used !coop with same coop group that they will end up in the same team => there is no way to know which players will coop before actually balancing).
feature request : same as !coop team but to make a team for normal games and the autohost would handle it as a clan for balancing
Nice idea, so i implemented it. :-p Launched for testing on FuN Autohost. May be it even works. !team <team id> or !pset teamId <team id> - works just like a clantag. Looking forward to your feedback :)
also implemented !tcoop which is a shortcut for !team and !coop :) EDIT: after some testing all this stuff seems rather stable. bibim, if you find it useful feel free to integrate it :) patch file is here: http://antideza.su/spads.patch
After spring 0.79 I can't seem to get spads host working. I reinstalled spads from scratch, but now when I run it I first get a verbose output when spads is loading, and when I try to start a game I get an error:
Any idea what the cause could be? I'm using the windows (testing) version and latest spring. The autohost can boot and log on, but it's when I try starting games that it crashes.
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