s3o vs 3do

[Saktoth]

This image compares s3o with 3do using identical textures.



Up close, not so bad. However, as you can see, the texture blurs very badly on the s3o as you zoom out. A relatively far distance, it is an indistinct grey blob. What is this due to? Mipmaps, texture compression?

[Argh]

It's not the model format. It's the texture compression settings. Take that image exported from UpSpring, compress as DDS.

[Forboding Angel]

My internet is screwy so i can only upload it to the forums, will fix later. How do you show an attatchment as an image (can you?).

Attach the image, display inline, post message. Right click on link, copy location, edit message, img tags, paste location.

Use png for s3o's. That way spring's mipmapping can't dick it all up.

[zwzsg]

How do you show an attatchment as an image (can you?).

Code: Select all

[img]http://springrts.com/phpbb/download/file.php?id=3165[/img]

[Saktoth]

What you see in that image is DDS. The first thing i did was to check whether PNG or TGA made any difference, since i know DDS creates mipmaps. It did not. The results are identical.

Are there any kind of settings or modifications i can do to the mipmaps to get them to not do that? Do mipmaps have to be made manually or something to ensure detail isnt lost? Could it have something to do with The Gimps DDS plugin (Doubt it, since this is the same thing i've been complaining about since i started using .s3o, and i was using photoshop back then).

Or is this just a massive problem with how spring handles .s3o textures?

[smoth]

maybe it changes miplevels sooner for s3o? is it possible?

[Saktoth]

I dont think 3do even uses mipmaps, looking at it. I think the problem is having mipmaps at all.

[Pressure Line]

if you use dxtbmp you can have it apply a sharpen filter onto the mipmaps for dds

[Master-Athmos]

That's a problem that has been discussed for a couple of times. For 3dos the same crisp texture always gets used while for s3os it starts using mip-maps. The problem for the s3os now is that it uses too low levels way too fast. Someone once did a cube or something with numbers on it representing the mip-mapping level and just a little amount of zooming out made it switch downwards by a lot...

Use the forum search to get to the respective topic - it's an old problem related to s3os...

EDIT:
IIRC there even was a hackish way to get rid of the bad mip-mapping by using AF and forcing lower mip-mapping levels in your driver's options...

EDIT2:
BTW - here's the topic with that cube:
http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14068

[Saktoth]

Dont read the development forum, that'd make sense.

So is there any hope of it being fixed or allowing mod-side control over mipmap levels?

[Kloot]

.springrc | springsettings.cfg ==> TextureLODBias=-1 | -2 | -3 | -4

As stated in that topic, it is the OGL driver that controls which MIP level is used when, not Spring. An application can only give bias hints to change the selection behavior.

[Master-Athmos]

I guess only that once someone does some in-depth changes to the unit rendering to add level-of-detail stuff you might get actual influence on the mip-map behaviour...

[smoth]

Kloot, can this be changed in lua? as in could I add some looahs to adjust miplevels based on the fps of a user?

[Kloot]

You'll be able to play around with the bias from Lua in the next Spring version, by calling:

Code: Select all

gl.TexEnv(GL.TEXTURE_FILTER_CONTROL, GL.TEXTURE_LOD_BIAS, bias)

That is also the most fine-grained "control" achievable.

[smoth]

woot

[Saktoth]

Is there any way to disable mipmaps entirely, like 3do? And if so, what are the consequences if any?

[smoth]

IIRC it will eat your fps.

[AF]

EDIT:
IIRC there even was a hackish way to get rid of the bad mip-mapping by using AF and forcing lower mip-mapping levels in your driver's options...

Glad to have been of service ^_^

[Tobi]

Is there any way to disable mipmaps entirely, like 3do? And if so, what are the consequences if any?

Moir├® patterns.

[rattle]

In case of an nvidia GPU install nHancer and override the LOD bias in the driver settings to see the effects for yourself