For the time being, T2 will be inaccessible in-game. This is to create a more sterile environment for the balancing of the T1 units.
When T1 feels sufficiently balanced, T2 will be opened back up, and it will begin to be balanced. It should be noted that "sufficiently balanced" does not mean perfect. I for one don't believe in "perfect balance." It simply means when the game is beginning to behave more like it is/was intended to.
As far as a time estimate, I have no idea. If I had to give a number, I'd say no more than a few weeks, but I could be very wrong.
T2 Closed Off
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Re: T2 Closed Off
Good idea.
Oddly, in a lot of games you find out the game is actually more fun this way.
Oddly, in a lot of games you find out the game is actually more fun this way.
Re: T2 Closed Off
At the moment t2 is useless anyways since in every case it is outperformed by t1
Re: T2 Closed Off
my small suggestion is to make t2 support tier, not just better substitute for t1
Re: T2 Closed Off
+1000Wombat wrote:my small suggestion is to make t2 support tier, not just better substitute for t1
Tank - Advanced Tank
Missle Tank - Advanced Missle Tank
Artillery - Advanced Artillery
...
...
The EMP Cannon is a start but it needs more like this.
Some T1 units could be T2 actually ie the anti tank mech, the anti mech tank, artillery.
It is similiar with the structures btw:
Radar - Advanced Radar
Powerplant - Advanced Powerplant
Gatling Turret - Advanced Gatling Turret
...
TAism ftl.
Re: T2 Closed Off
as long as something like aa/radar - advanced aa/radar is good, tank - adv tank sux balls. maybe make t1 tank and t2 tank with emp, or some flamer which deals full damage after some period of time. if u got 'robot' make t2 robot with bigger speed, better for raiding, not robot with better hp, damage, speed... well everything. also experiment with los, even if some unit is shitty but got good los, its still good to have it in ur army.
etc %D
etc %D
Re: T2 Closed Off
CA tried that...Wombat wrote:my small suggestion is to make t2 support tier, not just better substitute for t1
...doing it effectively is supremely difficult.
Re: T2 Closed Off
Why exactly... Designing a support unit is easy. Now make several support unit - artillery, mobile radar, jammer, all-terrainunit, whatever you need. Fine-tune them to be fun & balanced. Where's the huge problem compared to designing anything well?MidKnight wrote:CA tried that...Wombat wrote:my small suggestion is to make t2 support tier, not just better substitute for t1
...doing it effectively is supremely difficult.
Re: T2 Closed Off
I'm mostly dumb when it comes to RTS design but it would be really cool if you took you "single faction"... took all the units in all tiers and made them available as "tier 1" (aka com can build them or a fac that can build them or a fac that can build a bot that can build them you get the basic idea)... any unit that did not serve a purpose should be stripped or re purposed... things that are too powerful should be made prohibitively expensive etc...
THEN, when everything is balanced you make 3+ factions (for example , siege-focused, skirmish-focussed and defence-focussed) by taking certain units OFF that factions tier 1 and moving it to their tier 2.
This could be a crazy stupid Idea but it could also be AWESOME...
THEN, when everything is balanced you make 3+ factions (for example , siege-focused, skirmish-focussed and defence-focussed) by taking certain units OFF that factions tier 1 and moving it to their tier 2.
This could be a crazy stupid Idea but it could also be AWESOME...
-
SanadaUjiosan
- Conflict Terra Developer
- Posts: 907
- Joined: 21 Jan 2010, 06:21
Re: T2 Closed Off
The T2 of the NKG was undeniably made to mirror TA's structure. Almost a year ago when I first began scribbling down ideas for my faction, and was for the most part unaware of how much I could do in the engine, I thought it was the best thing to basically make bigger stronger versions of T1 units.
I've since then snapped out of that mindset, but I'm stuck with practically a whole Tier of units that are for the most part nothing more than bigger stronger versions. I've pondered what to do with them, but to no avail. They will probably, for the most part, maintain their roles of being bigger and stronger.
T2 for CT is, afterall, intended to be more of a powerful auxiliary. We put in the unit limits so that you can't suddenly switch your army over to T2 and stomp the poor T1 players. T1 is still important, or so that's the plan anyways.
I've since then snapped out of that mindset, but I'm stuck with practically a whole Tier of units that are for the most part nothing more than bigger stronger versions. I've pondered what to do with them, but to no avail. They will probably, for the most part, maintain their roles of being bigger and stronger.
T2 for CT is, afterall, intended to be more of a powerful auxiliary. We put in the unit limits so that you can't suddenly switch your army over to T2 and stomp the poor T1 players. T1 is still important, or so that's the plan anyways.
Re: T2 Closed Off
Though it would mean not to use a lot of work, ie "waste" it I would condense the unit count so that every unit is unique. You could keep only the best models and further update them with fitting muzzle flashs, animations, weapon effects etc.I'm stuck with practically a whole Tier of units that are for the most part nothing more than bigger stronger versions.
Re: T2 Closed Off
Okay, I've got an idea on how to use your energy buildings *and* your current stack of "they're L1 units but BIGGER" L2 units:
Heroes.
Here's the system I have in mind: energy centres are now "Command centres". Heroes cost Command, which is a special supply-like resource that only is used for heroes. Supply cost goes up for each hero using an accelerating sequence.
hero limit vs. supply.
1 hero = 0 command
2 heroes = 1 command
3 heroes = 2 command
4 heroes = 4 command
5 heroes = 8 command
6 heroes = 16 command
7 heroes = 32 command etc.
Although you'd probably just do fine with 2-3 different "command" buildings - a small one and a large, expensive, tough one, and maybe a cheap-but-fragile-and-explodey one for guys who like to gamble.
Remember this is a carrying capacity, not a cost. Heroes cost normal metal to build too, but they also have this shared hard limit.
Now here's the second trick - you don't build heroes at a factory. Instead, you take an *experienced* combat unit and morph him into his Hero form. Morphing takes 60 seconds, so if you lose a hero and you have the metal and an experienced trooper ready to morph into a hero, you'll still have to wait the morph-time until you can be fully back at the capacity defined by your Command level. First thing you do after the first combat is pick a survivor, bring him home to base and start morphing him as your first Hero. Have fun giving the Hero units special powers in addition to their raw fighting ability, since you'll generally have a handful of them so they won't be a micro problem. Make *that* your special artillery-unit-that-outranges-everybody, your mobile shield generator, your mobile cloak-generator, or just a farking assault juggernaut that strikes fear into the heart of the enemy, etc.
Or you could void the "experience" requirement and include non-combat units. Want a "hero" radar station? Do it. But it takes up Command.
You could even do the same for defenses - those defenses that can become mobile? Make those the Hero form of a defense. So my land-turret levels up? Morph it into that heavy mobile-but-must-be-deployed-to-fight Battery as a new defensive Hero.
Move those deployable L2 vehicles that only fight when deployed into L1, just make them bigger, expensive L1 units.
Dunno what to do with the regular, static L2 defenses. Those ones really are "L1 but bigger" defenses. Perhaps something simpler, like making them some kind of home-base-only defenses or something? Special defenses that can only fire and function in the presence of a command cruiser? Just let any L1 defense morph into an L2 defense (at cost) if they're close to an Oda... but they don't fire if the Oda leaves or something like that, and have a button to sell them back down to an L1 defense and get half your metal back.
Heroes.
Here's the system I have in mind: energy centres are now "Command centres". Heroes cost Command, which is a special supply-like resource that only is used for heroes. Supply cost goes up for each hero using an accelerating sequence.
hero limit vs. supply.
1 hero = 0 command
2 heroes = 1 command
3 heroes = 2 command
4 heroes = 4 command
5 heroes = 8 command
6 heroes = 16 command
7 heroes = 32 command etc.
Although you'd probably just do fine with 2-3 different "command" buildings - a small one and a large, expensive, tough one, and maybe a cheap-but-fragile-and-explodey one for guys who like to gamble.
Remember this is a carrying capacity, not a cost. Heroes cost normal metal to build too, but they also have this shared hard limit.
Now here's the second trick - you don't build heroes at a factory. Instead, you take an *experienced* combat unit and morph him into his Hero form. Morphing takes 60 seconds, so if you lose a hero and you have the metal and an experienced trooper ready to morph into a hero, you'll still have to wait the morph-time until you can be fully back at the capacity defined by your Command level. First thing you do after the first combat is pick a survivor, bring him home to base and start morphing him as your first Hero. Have fun giving the Hero units special powers in addition to their raw fighting ability, since you'll generally have a handful of them so they won't be a micro problem. Make *that* your special artillery-unit-that-outranges-everybody, your mobile shield generator, your mobile cloak-generator, or just a farking assault juggernaut that strikes fear into the heart of the enemy, etc.
Or you could void the "experience" requirement and include non-combat units. Want a "hero" radar station? Do it. But it takes up Command.
You could even do the same for defenses - those defenses that can become mobile? Make those the Hero form of a defense. So my land-turret levels up? Morph it into that heavy mobile-but-must-be-deployed-to-fight Battery as a new defensive Hero.
Move those deployable L2 vehicles that only fight when deployed into L1, just make them bigger, expensive L1 units.
Dunno what to do with the regular, static L2 defenses. Those ones really are "L1 but bigger" defenses. Perhaps something simpler, like making them some kind of home-base-only defenses or something? Special defenses that can only fire and function in the presence of a command cruiser? Just let any L1 defense morph into an L2 defense (at cost) if they're close to an Oda... but they don't fire if the Oda leaves or something like that, and have a button to sell them back down to an L1 defense and get half your metal back.
Last edited by Pxtl on 19 Nov 2010, 23:34, edited 4 times in total.
Re: T2 Closed Off
well i can belive that, 't2' veh lab is totally uselessMidKnight wrote:CA tried that...Wombat wrote:my small suggestion is to make t2 support tier, not just better substitute for t1
...doing it effectively is supremely difficult.