Smoth's unnamed game concept dump/discussion/bestest ideas.

[smoth]

OMFG MY ULTRA AWESOMEST GAME IDEA

So my thoughts are that I need to get my art to the next part. So, here are my thoughts.

The test project is going to get it's reusable components moved into the GBS CORE.

After that I may well begin moving towards a new game as far as getting a few buildings and other structures so I am just putting some brain storming stuff here so I know what concepts I have to draw. Believe it or not all the buildings in GRTS that I made up were originally sketches I did. So I like to draw out my buildings and all before I make them part of the game. So this list is shit I need to get my basic game elements to a functional level of something playable.

Resource structure
I like the 3 resource system I used in gundam RTS. That stays.
Basic -> Money
Refined -> Basic Components(will be basic in the ui)
Exotic -> Exotic Components(keeping this name)
Pilots -> *NEW* This is a resource which requires baracks to be built. Some units are "ai" driven units so a human pilot might not be necessary.

Income.
Basic, constantly accumulated.
Refined, paid for in basic
Exotic, costs refined.
Pilots are house in barracks, every so often, the base has a supply ship come in, that ship can resupply troops so if you are ordering nothing, your troop resupply will happen.

Command building and Map Control
Players had been requesting this for some time, so I figured why the hell not. So here is what I had planned on doing. For each LZ you take control of, you get 1000xp for each capture. YOU CAN ONLY GET THE REWARD 1 TIME! Afterwards you only get an LZ

Barracks can only get extra pilots from an LZ if they are NEAR THE LZ.

Your main part of your base is your LZ. NOT a command building. LOSE YOUR LZ AND YOU CANNOT GET RESUPPLIES! As in, no mechs, no pilots, nothing! When you take an LZ, a supply ship will fly in on the next cycle and drop off a free construction unit so you can begin base building.

LZ is just a glowing pulse with smoke coming from it until the ship lands at which point I am unsure of how I want to indicate it.

A 2 player map would have 5 LZs 1 for each base and 2 expansions. One LZ in the middle. The idea being that the player should be able to get at least 3 expansions and then have stuff delivered forward.

Being that since I shut gundam down I was reluctant to continue this as MW spring already did it.. but screw it, I am still ripping off DOW.

World options.
these are map parameters
night: units receive reduced sight and reduced heat accumulation
ice: reduced heat accumulation
desert maps: increased heat accumulation.
snow/rain: reduced visibility

Research.
Remains unchanged. Same as gundam 1.28(unreleased)

"overheating."
once a certain heat is reached the unit will cook it's pilot or cpu and fall silent(hold position, hold fire, not accept orders).
Water, night and snow reduce heat accumulation. so standing in cold water at night would result in the least amount of heat accumulation possible
Desert worlds have increased heat accumulation

"fire select."
Only select weapons systems will have the ability to overheat. Piloted units that can speed up their fire rates will have 3 modes:
Normal fire: fires at normal rate
Overdrive: fires faster, can reach 100% heat and stop shoots until heat drops below 100%
Limiter off: fires faster, will not stop shooting, there is a legitimate chance to cook your pilot

"AI UNITS"
AI units are always on fire at will and hold position.

"AI UNITS" mechanics ideas(not sure still)
- berserk, if they go into berserk mode, they will be set to roam and fire at will, randomly get move orders in the directions they are facing. their weapons will fire at 1.2x fire rate and begin to overheat. Unlike player controlled units, they have no fire select, so they will always behave as if they have their no limiter setting on while berserk.

Aircraft
I plan on having aircraft never land and get "called in." The exception being transports.

Aircraft will require some sort of support structure(s) so players can scout.

Behemoth corp Initial unit list:
Air
hawk: air dominance.
Finch: scout
Raven: scout
- has stealth on night maps
Albatross: bomber
Eagle: transport.

Demi-frames
Badger: mid-range, all rounder.
- minigun 2x, medium damage

Kodiak: close-range, heavy dominance.
- shotgun 1x
- has heavy armor type due to plates 1.6 move speed
- rocket pods, only targets on command

Hell Cat: medium-range, area saturation
- huge miniguns that fire inaccurately
- has fire select
- slow-ish

Lynx, mid-range, base assault
- 2x rocket launcher
- thruster pack, can travel over water(hover unit), can use jump jet to hop a short distance

Snapping turtle, long range, artillery
- slow, stealth
- artillery cannons 2x
- missile pods
- has to deploy before it fires artillery cannon(morph)

Tanks(all tanks are ai driven and do not require a pilot.)
Recluse, mid range
- stealth
- gets cloaking on night maps.
- large bore gun(heavy vs medium)

Goliath bird eater, anti-air
- twin linked miniguns
- smaller minigun on top of tank.
- prioritizes air(need to investigate target priority tags still even work)

Structures:
Supply chain
- can build other supply chain warehouses
- Permanent upgrade(morphs)
-- seismic detection structure
-- sight tower structure
-- radar structure
-- repair structure
-- armored all round defense turret
-- armored anti-air defense turret

Seismic detection structure
Supply chain building with little poles in the ground and wires going out to those poles
- gives seismic detection

Sight tower structure
gets large tower extending from the top of it with windows
- unaffected by night maps

radar structure
Radar dome with a few randomized sat dishes and antennas in the perimeter.
- gives radar
- consumes power

repair structure
Has little / / / / / lines around it and a crane on the top facing n,s,e,w.
- repair/resupply any nearby unit not engaged in a fight.

armored anti-ground defense turret, anti ground
large turret with a fortified looking base
- consumes power

armored anti-air defense turret, anti air
large turret with a fortified looking base
- consumes power

Power facility
Looks like fairly large angular structure with power building looking greebles
- Permanent upgrade(morphs)
-- can get concrete walls around it, gains +1000 hp
- produces power

Barracks
long tent like structure with protective walls around it
- holds x amount of pilots(pilot resource storage)
- Permanent upgrade(morphs)
-- can get concrete walls around it, gains +500 hp

2/12/15 Update

SO I have been thinking, I may change a few things.

1: economy from my old project will be changing.

Basic -> will become "credits"
exotic will no longer be a tiered resource, it will represent available human pilots. Some units in the game will require you to spend resources on pilots.
Refined will now become ace(pilot)s

The pilots will be flown in exchange for supplies and credits. Ace pilots will cost much more and have their own special units, they cannot be used for for the standard pilot units.

ok so will the pilots eject from the units? yes. Will they attempt to run back to base? yes. Will there be recovery vehicles? yes. But they'll be small, yep. It worked years ago, it will work now.

ok so then what about other units? these units are ai units. Not ai as in you do not command them, but AI units. It is not going to be as capable as the rest of the in game units piloted by a human. How so? not sure.

Anyway. That and the conyards are going to require placement on a metal spot.

that is all for now, good night.

[PicassoCT]

+1 for sweet little details..

armored anti-air defense turret, anti air
large turret with a fortified looking base

You could make slow mobile flak that guns down supply ships, if it gets close enough to the enemy LZ (anti-porc measure)
Add a little recapture resources from gunned down transports mini-game.



The overheating mechanism could get interesting... making the battles flow back and forth.. Maybee have a Unit that can shield retreats and drop grenades..

But actually this is the sugar off the whole make your own game process... the actual design phase.. discussing it - is like stealing dessert from the dish.. there is going to be enough work left, that nobody would bother "discussing" with anyone, cause its just work :)

[smoth]

chatting with corsair, reading your post and thinking, There may be a few questions:

Fire select ability:
once overheated in overdrive what happens?
The weapon is jammed and can not fire until heat reaches zero.

Does this mean I can just turn off overdrive creating a DPS pulse type situation?
Presently yes, I am not sure how I plan on doing it. It could give a more skilled/higher apm player an unfair advantage via pulsing. The only unit that has the fire select mode is the hellcat. The AI units are going to pretty much fire until they die or run out of targets while berserk. I have always felt adding something that a skilled player can "play" with vs an unskilled player rewards players who learn the actual game. Just like gundam, some units need to be "op." Powered GMs or char come to mind as units that I had which seemed op but once you learned the game were fun but obvious to take out.

What are your plans should the whole fire select thing become too stronk?
Adding an animation between selecting fire modes that requires the unit to stop firing. while switching modes , this would make it so the unit would be vulnerable all the same if you are switching modes, so you'll want to make this decision BEFORE you engage.


Aircraft
How is the whole calling aircraft thing going to work:
the aircraft would be like say an ability in generals, you pay the cost, tell them go somewhere and they travel from map edge through your control points to the targeted areas. There would be a delay from when you call the ability and the aircraft arrive on map to attack a target. I may or may not make it cost resources..

How long are they going to stay?
Not sure yet, going to do bombers as say like 2-3 runs. Scouts will probably patrol a large area around the targeted scouting target. Fighters will patrol your desired area indefinitely. I may add an air repair pad for refuel/repair.

What is the vector of attack/arrival?
They will travel from your base, through your LZ zones into the enemy target that is the closest. what if it is in front of my base, well then why would it go to the next LZ, I have to figure that part out but it isn't that hard :).

Supply ships
Will supply ships be able to be shot down?
maybe.

Are they a constant?
Yes. Unless otherwise stated, they will be coming in with a preselected AI type unit which has a job as soon as it arrives.

What is the supply ship time?
10 seconds per cost.

Cost?
Cost = 1cost/minute
yeah, imagine you are looking at say a recluse squad. They will have a cost of 2. Which means in 2 minutes they will arrive. Say you decide to max it out with 2 snapping turtles(I am going to make them take up the full transport capacity. they each cost 3 so their total cost is 6, they will arrive in 6 minutes.

Wait so ships fly units in, so conframes and conassist is going to be gone?
Removed it in gundam RTS, don't want it here either. That is an OTA thing


On the AI units:
WAIT, WAIT, "JOBS?"
Yes, jobs, defend passive, defend active, or attack. are what I have planned.

Defend passive and active?
return fire and hold position or fire at will with a patrol route around the LZ

So what is attack?
once they are spawned, they will move to the nearest LZ an try to take that LZ.

Is the berserk thing the originally the AI units were meant to be?
Initially I thought about stuff like minions in LOL that you send out to zones(think risk) with orders, either defend or siege zones. At spawn, they would go to zones of control and just move from each control zone on their own constantly. So there is something always happening and the players can just focus on their pilot controlled. The idea is that there are units you are occasionally giving strategic goals to. I may still do that. Balancing out my ai units ability to be a sort of "thinking on it's own" sort of deal is going to be difficult

Wait, like minions in LOL? So they are free then?
Yes. Yes, some will only be able to have 1-2 per transport.

the berserk status for AI units:
The berserk would have a chance to trigger after a unit is in combat and at 50% health and on damage. I thought about having it where if a player has a human unit in range they act like an overlord of sorts but if that player unit isn't there, the unit can go berserk. I am still not sure, I want the AI units to have issues with being difficult to keep in line over say a piloted unit. One thought was that stuff like ai units are all squads and if the squad commander dies the units could go berserk but that is a bit silly as well.

Supply lines
Can supply lines still be built once they are morphed?
Nope. They are now that new structure.

Pilots
How do I get more pilots?
They are "reinforcements" that you request to be delivered on the next drop ship

Can they eject and I recover them?
Maybe, I am not sure how much that MIGHT slow gameplay.

[Forboding Angel]

Coming from someone who recently learned the hard way, I suggest not having dedicated anti-air. The gameplay actually suffers from it. Removing anti-air from evo and making everything fire at air was the best choice I have ever made and the game has flourished from it in a gameplay sense.

I dislike the heat aspect in an non-turn-based game. That is a LOT of micromanaging.

[smoth]

gundam had dedicated anti-air, I had no issue with it.

[Forboding Angel]

I didn't mean that it doesn't work. What I meant was that it makes games less fun overall, which sounds weird, but for a perfect case in point, I look at evo as it was before the change and then after.

The concept is more or less illustrated in other games as well.

[smoth]

I don't agree. I had 1 dedicated anti air unit in grts. I think it worked well. GRTS had an entirely different trade off system with power and all. I think that is still relevant in this game should I allow for mini-antiair and mini-ground like I had in GRTS. Power buildings are large and tasty targets porc at your own risk.

In 1.28(unreleased) and this game structures are worth MAJOR points towards your command rank which has a lot to do with what you can unlock or not. So having lots of structures could feed your opponent.

[Kenku]

Saw your note on metal spots and cons...how quickly do people get new cons? Mostly wondering in the case of a map like CCR and wondering if that would cause some sort of weird "Cityscape" setup if a game went long.

[smoth]

You would order them as part of your resupply drop. There will likely be a limit of between 2-4 of them per resupply

[raaar]

stuff in your games looks more realistic than in TA-like games. Realistic looking stuff behaving realistically means long weapon ranges (imo).

What ranges are you going to use on weapons?

short-range
med-range
long-range

short-range is what, 250? 350? 450?

[smoth]

stuff in your games looks more realistic than in TA-like games. Realistic looking stuff behaving realistically means long weapon ranges (imo).

What ranges are you going to use on weapons?

short-range
med-range
long-range

short-range is what, 250? 350? 450?

Ranges go from 500-2000+ depending. I am not intending on doing 3 miles range for a tank gun, make the range too close to realistic and you have issues with the game becoming icon wars, at which point why bother at all with the models. ultimately I want the game to be fun if not mildly arcade like. My ranges are often larger than OTA ranges but nothing like say a bertha. I mostly will fudge them on what I feel is the most fun.

[MetalSucker]

Regarding jobs, areas, unit 'supply', I've seen some interesting ideas in a game called "globulation 2", it's open source and pretty much the weirdest RTS ever.

[Kenku]

You would order them as part of your resupply drop. There will likely be a limit of between 2-4 of them per resupply

How often are drops? and thinking about it, I'm guessing on a map like CCR Power is going to be a bases size limiter?

[smoth]

I am not sure, maybe 1 minute per drop, maybe they will vary based on the weight of the load or perhaps require a bit of time at load and unload points. The idea is that I will start adding Geos to my maps. In my games these will be extra drop zones that you can claim.

I don't want to come off as indecisive, more to the point that after a concept has been implemented often times, I have to adjust so I don't want to seem like it ABSOLUTELY WILL go this way, just how I am thinking about going with it.

[Kenku]

Understandable. I am getting a bit specific in my questions anyway ^^; Definitly sounds like a cool concept as I'm reading and different from much anything I've seen.

[Forboding Angel]

stuff in your games looks more realistic than in TA-like games.

Yeah, he's a good artist.

Realistic looking stuff behaving realistically means long weapon ranges (imo).

No... it doesn't