Why not?

[Cheesecan]

Currently there are one or two new maps released every week.

At the moment of writing, I cannot see even one newly released map being hosted in the lobby. Let alone played.

Checkinglobby statistics, 95% of players participate in DS games. Spring-files has 1246 spring maps. Many maps from older days have disappeared. So probably somewhere around 0.001% of maps made are being played on a regular basis.

Many years ago, when I played Starcraft, people would play different variants of Big Game Hunters(BGH from now on). BGH Winter, BGH Desert, BGH Green etc. The Starcraft players were Legion compared to the tiny spring community, and yet even such a large community showed the same tendency to replay what is basically the same map over and over.

Could it be that the future of spring mapping is making ripoffs of Delta Siege? Is Forb on the right track with that idea?

Certainly many maps released after DS have been much better, in overall quality, gameplay and graphics. But this has gone largely unnoticed by the players who refuse to try them.

I therefore propose that every single mapper begin making Delta Siege ripoffs until players tire of Delta Siege.

[Jazcash]

Get rid of the poll. People can't express their full views through a poll. I appreciate a lot of maps which I've only played once or twice or maybe never at all.

[Cheesecan]

Ok, I got rid of the poll since it seemed to not be working for me anyway. The poll was mostly there so that people who are too lazy to write anything could express their grievances with the status quo.

[Beherith]

Dsd has some very refined gameplay by now, everyone knows what the most usual strategies are, and why should they switch to a map less porcy and possibly less fun? Dsd is a good and porcy map without going over the top. I still enjoy dsd quite a lot, but, what I think dealt the final blow to other maps was when you could join ingame autohosts. Now, instead of joining a room and waiting a bit for it to fill cause there is nothing else to join.

edit more to come gtg.

[Jazcash]

And as a general comment. I think it's now widely accepted that DSD is the attractor of players. As much as it's a great map, it really is about time something is done to get other maps played.

It's nothing to do with how much people love DSD any more. It's about which map is most played and the maps that people are forced to play because that's all everybody else plays, even if they don't like it. It's the only thing with players. It's a constant loop. Players --> More Players.

Just do something please. Consider this a public begging.

[Cheesecan]

I tried using the heightmap exporter to get the DS heightmap, but it crashed. I know Forb has it so I am PMing him to get. Let's all make ripoffs!

[1v0ry_k1ng]

agree with jazcash

what can you do though

[knorke]

people suck.

Starcraft players were Legion compared to the tiny spring community, and yet even such a large community showed the same tendency to replay what is basically the same map over and over.

or fa$t$est pos&&sible map! ALL YOUR MINERS CAN MINE THAT MINERAL
but at least that was kind of a "fun map" (like speedballs or duck or whatever) but dsd has kind of became the standard
---
maybe make some maps that only take a small part of dsd (like the hills at the top) and make this into a 2v2 or 3v3 map.
players will still join because its still dsd with familiar metalspots etc. but slowly they get used to smaller teamgames or 1v1 -> more interessting games!

[Jazcash]

You're right. Spring cannot handle DSD so lets chop it up and hand bits out.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

you what would be better than little chunks of DSD? pre-designed 2v2-4v4 maps, which we already have. what we need is a playerbase not full of noobstars

[smoth]

first it was speed metal, now dsd.. if the players move from dsd they will just move to another map.

Rinse and repeat.

don't like it?

host something else.

[JohannesH]

you what would be better than little chunks of DSD? pre-designed 1v1-4v4 maps, which we already have. what we need is a playerbase not full of noobstars

fixed

[knorke]

you what would be better than little chunks of DSD? pre-designed 2v2-4v4 maps, which we already have. what we need is a playerbase not full of noobstars

orly.
still i would prefer to play a game on a smallsize dsd that starts after 5 minutes because of the popular name than a game on a "real" map that starts after 60 minutes.
not because the gameplay is better but because you would actually get to play games. and not idle in lobby. and maybe after a while of mini-dsd some players would discover the fun/challenge in playing different, smaller team games?

don't like it?
host something else.

like, for how long?

[smoth]

For as long as you want to play. After I made the 1.2 release of gundam I hosted daily and drummed up players. had 8 player matches and the like for a project that was like 100-200+ megs to play.

The moment I stopped hosting and stopped rounding up people to play it started to die off. took about 2 weeks before gundam disappeared from the games list.

[knorke]

so that was probally the "oh-its-new"-effect + the drumming up people.
hardly usefull for this problem.

[SirArtturi]

Lemme participate this discussion once again.

First of all, One must realize that theres no game, which wouldnt have one or two "favourite" maps, but moreover, realize that Spring has pushed this trend in ridicilous levels. Even so ridicilous that it bores me and makes me sad.

Of course I as a mapper, would like to see my maps played, but thats not the case. For me it's more important that there would be even just a slight more variety in map cycle. That broadens the gaming experience. Atm, Im very bored of spring, even though it has tons of maps and mods.

Now, something positive. I've found that boredom of BA DSD favours other mods. I personally, started to play other mods, just because they offer me more fun and more maps.

Far beyond, the problem lies IMHO in autohosts and presets. Autohosts just doesn't encourage proper map cycle, when noobies can vote back to dsd just after game another.

Please, no more DSD ripoff's or anything DSD related crap, Senna should be perm banned!
Im so Tired.
Peace.
calm Sky...
Don't Regret!

[smoth]

so that was probally the "oh-its-new"-effect + the drumming up people.
hardly usefull for this problem.

and how would a new shiney map not have a similar effect?

[PicassoCT]

If we rename a lot of our newmaps as dsd- and put them into the autohosts, so the noobs only know what happens to them, when its already loaded?

New Map down there throat you want? The Force you must use, the trickshot to do.

[Jazcash]

Please, no more DSD ripoff's or anything DSD related crap, Senna should be perm banned!

Amen to that.

Although, I think I more hate the fact of playing more players on a map which was designed for only half that amount or so. DSD was designed for 5vs5 and works great and I love DSD 5v5 and won't tire of it as long as teams are nice. The reason more than 5 players a team fails on DSD is because you begin to create layers of players.

You end up having 4 in front and 4 behind. This usually means the 4 players at the back getting the mentality that they have a meat shield in front of them. This enduces porcing, teching and general "Confidence" of not being attacked any time soon.

You'll find most players under rank 6 reluctant to play on the frontline spot due to them not liking to put in effort or they may be afraid that they will die quickly due to the mentality in their heads that they are playing alone.

Players like to be lazy and win without putting in effort which can mean Nuke rushing, combombing and the like. This is what creates a bad player.

To have a good game and a game where players skills are improved, you should have each player holding their own front and not relying on other players to protect them. New players may be unconfident and may die quickly but this is what makes a player good. Learning to become confident and learning how to hold their own.

If you want a good 8v8 where players improve their skills, you should have a long map with no layering of players. Each player should have their own front to defend with nobody feeling safe.

That's why any map with more players than it should have is usually a bad idea because it enforces newby behaviour from the players at the back.

[SirArtturi]

You end up having 4 in front and 4 behind. This usually means the 4 players at the back getting the mentality that they have a meat shield in front of them.

So true. I hate when I have to be on front on dsd, not that I wouldn't be comfortable with the micro and battle, but the fact that Im used as a meat shield and im the first who gets the damn Bertha hit...

If you want a good 8v8 where players improve their skills, you should have a long map with no layering of players. Each player should have their own front to defend with nobody feeling safe.

You are right with the layering issue. But I must disagree about own individual fronts. The reason why DSD is so popular, is that is has two fronts, where each team participates and confronts. That enforces teamplay, what is the idea of teamgames, or at least in dsd's case, creates an illusion of team play.