We need a stronger red! - Page 2

We need a stronger red!

Discuss the source code and development of Spring Engine in general from a technical point of view. Patches go here too.

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smoth
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Post by smoth »

Caydr wrote:Ehh... Did you try that bit I said about darkening the team colour area?
Darkening the team color area would make the other colors too dark

The point.. like I said earlier... for the 3 time is that all of the other colors look good but RED, TAN and BLUE1
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

actually foeofthebea I was thinking seashell.
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

Now that I think about it, it really does look pink.

PS: Anyone else reminded of that one Red Vs blue when the rookie got new red armor, and it was light red and everyone made fun of him, because they thought it looked pink. Ah Red Vs Blue. Hilarious.
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Um...

Just look at units from NanoBlobs in UpSpring. It's not terribly hard to end up with a pure shade of whatever teamcolor you're using.

Also, bear in mind that certain light settings in maps can have a very dramatic effect on how light seems to interact with your colors.
Last edited by Argh on 26 May 2006, 21:19, edited 1 time in total.
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

Or maybe, some of us want to have details and not solid bands of color because that is ugly looking. That is why I made this post again to all of you illerate....

THERE ARE ONLY 3 COLORS THAT NEED WORK. STOP BING SUCH ASSHOLES!
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Fanger
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Post by Fanger »

Look dude.. you can plainly see its pink.. ITS PINK... not red pINK seriously.. this needs to be looked at..

Dirty work arounds = TEH SUCK

Fixed stuff = cool..
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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear »

There will always be a bit of a problem with s3o teamcolors not coming out perfectly crisp because of the way they are being rendered on the model from the alpha layer. If you put 0% alpha layer on your model your color will be much crisper but you won't be able to add any detailing or shadowing to anything within the range. Partial alpha gives you more control over the background effects being applied but you won't get as crisp a color.
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

it can be fixed. It needs to be fixed. Even Shogo:MAD had a better implementation. I am saying it is only 3 colors.. is it that hard to adress? The purple and yellow look perfect! How is it that we have a shity red, blue1 and TAN?!?!? It is probably just something hastily implemented that needs to be looked at now that people are using more and more s3o files.

I know I do not want pink troops Heavy gear, PINK TANKS IN AATA, PINK MECHS IN GUNDAM or pink ships in GEM
Egarwaen
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Post by Egarwaen »

smoth wrote:PINK MECHS IN GUNDAM
Char feels very left out, Smoth. Why won't you accept him for who he is? :wink:
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

Egarwaen wrote:
smoth wrote:PINK MECHS IN GUNDAM
Char feels very left out, Smoth. Why won't you accept him for who he is? :wink:
because he is the RED COMET! not the PINK comet.
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Argh
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Post by Argh »

Methinks that everybody should note that, in RGB-land, ranges from pure red (255 0 0) to almost pure white that is very faintly pink (1 0 0).

This causes problems, from an artistic perspective, because what we artists and viewers regard as shades of "red" (and this applies to some other colors, as well), is a very complex set of shades with various levels of browns and orange-reds. This has to do with how the human eye and brain perceive colors, and is actually a pretty complex topic- our perception of red is not simple. And this isn't exactly something easily programmed- and OTA's own color choices for red shades in their pallette actually demonstrates this nicely.
Egarwaen
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Post by Egarwaen »

smoth wrote:because he is the RED COMET! not the PINK comet.
Someone might want to inform the people responsible for painting his Mobile Suit...

No matter why it's happening, Smoth's right. Whatever shade it actually is, that teamcolour looks silly.
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

Argh wrote:Methinks that everybody should note that, in RGB-land, ranges from pure red (255 0 0) to almost pure white that is very faintly pink (1 0 0).

This causes problems, from an artistic perspective, because what we artists and viewers regard as shades of "red" (and this applies to some other colors, as well), is a very complex set of shades with various levels of browns and orange-reds. This has to do with how the human eye and brain perceive colors, and is actually a pretty complex topic- our perception of red is not simple. And this isn't exactly something easily programmed- and OTA's own color choices for red shades in their pallette actually demonstrates this nicely.

Show of hands... which one of us is a programer? which one of us has written code for the management of colors in a game or in an interface.

That would be guess who??? me?

LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY!

ADDING 000 255 255 YEILDS WHITE NOT 1

MOVING ON AGAIN, Can I hear from someone who isn't talking out his ass?
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Fanger
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Post by Fanger »

Why are you people bringing up the god damn way a human eye works.. no one cares.. as far as my eyes perceive the color is pink.. make it red... dont nitpick what is red/pink just make it more agreeably red..

THIS KIND OF RED
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

I agree with Fanger. Red...is...red...damn it. Not pink, not light red, not magenta, not anything. Its just red.
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AF
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Post by AF »

I think SJ did the colours, remember the thread asking for OTA team colour RGB values?

The blue is more baby blue than royal/navy blue, the red looks more like my baby sisters cardigan, she has another pink cardigan in a very similar shade to the pink on caydrs fighter
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Pxtl
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Still

Post by Pxtl »

It also reminds me of another problem: we have 10 team colours in Spring. 3 of them are blue, and meanwhile, there's no pink, no orange, no brown, only one green, and a white that matches with the "selected units" colour.

Oh, and an FYI on teamcolouring: traditionally, teamcolouring is added to the background colour.

Now, let's assume that the teamcolour of red is true red: 255 0 0, right?

Now, let's assume you put true red at maximum saturation (100%) over a grey background, like 64, 64, 64. The red maxes out at 255, so the result is 255 64 64. Know what colour that is?

PINK.

The way to maximize your colours (assuming Spring uses traditional additive approaches) is to (a) set the alpha up all the way, and (b) colour the underlying skins black. Then, when you do

Code: Select all

result_colour = alpha x teamcolour + basecolour
you get

Code: Select all

100% x [255 0 0] + [0 0 0]

= 255 0 0
which is pure red. Second of all, afaik Spring doesn't have coloured specular maps. Specular maps tell you what colour the glints on a shiny spot are. So, shineyness will always be white.

Just try it. Colour the teamcoloured spots black and see what happens.

Assuming spring uses additive colouring for the teamcolours (which is simplest and generally best) this approach will work for _all_ teamcolours, not just red.

Now, that just gives you solid teamcolour. Of course, you want to add highlights, shadows, and discolourations to your teamcoloured spots.
  • - To add shadows, reduce saturation (so you get dark red) - leave background black.

    - To get highlights, increase background values (add in a dark or light grey) so you get pink. Leave saturation at maximum.

    - To fade the colour into grey, do both - drop the saturation (alpha) channel while you increase the background grey.
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GAWD PIXTL......

HAVE YOU READ THE THREAD......?

THE OTHER COLORS LOOK FINE... WE ARE SIMPLY ASKING FOR A GODAMN ADJUSTMENT. I SWEAR TO ALL THAT IS CHAOS THEORY EVERY TIME I ASK FOR A CORRECTION EVERY JACKASS COMES OUT THE WOODWORK TO ARGUE IT! People won't fucking stop is it that hard for you people to get? "OOOH LOOK! Smoth is trying to say something, I am going to be an egotistical prick and state some blatant contrarian crap because I can not that I am helping... oh no I want to be a douche" ANYTIME I TRY TO do ANYTHING.

Pixtl, it is simple it is not red, it is pink. SOLID BLACK WOULD LOOK LIKE SHIT

Image
HOLY SHIT LOOK IT IS STILL FUCKING PINK NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP!

THIS IS NOT A 255 value YOU DO ARE TALKING OUT OF YOUR ASS STOP NOW!
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AF
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Post by AF »

calm down smoth, you're correct and that alone will bring you through, you're just shooting yourself in the foot now
Tobi
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Post by Tobi »

Instead of assuming things, look at the source:

Code: Select all

	teamColor[0][0]=90;
	teamColor[0][1]=90;
	teamColor[0][2]=255;

	teamColor[1][0]=255;
	teamColor[1][1]=80;
	teamColor[1][2]=80;

	teamColor[2][0]=255;
	teamColor[2][1]=255;
	teamColor[2][2]=255;

	teamColor[3][0]=70;
	teamColor[3][1]=220;
	teamColor[3][2]=70;

	teamColor[4][0]=10;
	teamColor[4][1]=10;
	teamColor[4][2]=220;

	teamColor[5][0]=150;
	teamColor[5][1]=10;
	teamColor[5][2]=180;

	teamColor[6][0]=255;
	teamColor[6][1]=255;
	teamColor[6][2]=0;

	teamColor[7][0]=60;
	teamColor[7][1]=60;
	teamColor[7][2]=60;

	teamColor[8][0]=140;
	teamColor[8][1]=190;
	teamColor[8][2]=255;

	teamColor[9][0]=160;
	teamColor[9][1]=160;
	teamColor[9][2]=145;
There. That's all current teamcolors (R, G, B). No arguing.

And this is the calculation:

Code: Select all

/**
 * Set up the texture environment in texture unit 0 
 * to give an S3O texture its team-colour.
 *
 * Also:
 * - call SetBasicS3OTeamColour to set the team colour to transform to.
 * - Replace the output alpha channel. If not, only the team-coloured bits will show, if that. Or something.
 */
void CUnitDrawer::SetupBasicS3OTexture0(void)
{
	[b]// RGB = Texture * (1-Alpha) + Teamcolor * Alpha[/b]
	glActiveTextureARB(GL_TEXTURE0_ARB);
	glTexEnvi(GL_TEXTURE_ENV,GL_COMBINE_RGB_ARB, GL_INTERPOLATE_ARB);
	glTexEnvi(GL_TEXTURE_ENV,GL_SOURCE0_RGB_ARB, GL_TEXTURE);
	glTexEnvi(GL_TEXTURE_ENV,GL_SOURCE1_RGB_ARB, GL_CONSTANT_ARB);
	glTexEnvi(GL_TEXTURE_ENV,GL_SOURCE2_RGB_ARB, GL_TEXTURE);
	glTexEnvi(GL_TEXTURE_ENV,GL_OPERAND2_RGB_ARB, GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA);
	glTexEnvi(GL_TEXTURE_ENV,GL_TEXTURE_ENV_MODE,GL_COMBINE_ARB);
	glEnable(GL_TEXTURE_2D);
}
So that's just normal translucency, looking at the comment, nothing fancy like additive blending or anything.

If I remember I'll play a bit with the teamcolors once I switched one of my checkouts back to trunk.
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