Space maps and spring :: Part 1 Skymaps and lighting

Space maps and spring :: Part 1 Skymaps and lighting

Discuss maps & map creation - from concept to execution to the ever elusive release.

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AF
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Space maps and spring :: Part 1 Skymaps and lighting

Post by AF »

Space skyboxes in spring are tbh quite poor. Creators simply dont realize that the map IS the skybox, and not the map has a skybox. The skybox too is a piece of art. You cant copy paste a selection of items together like a tileset, everything has to fit together, and its highly unlikely you can pull off the same skybox in several maps because it would degrade the visual value of the skybox and thus the maps.

Look at homeworld. They have huge things that take up entire sides of the map with a gigantic scale, and no part of the skybox is the same as any other part. In Homeworld you dont see a planet in the distance, you see it up close filling your entire screen. And thus those images simply arent big or detailed enough.

ImageImage

Also, people seem to think that more is better, and their skyboxes end up cluttered and unrealistic. There is only 1 scene in your space scenery, possibly 2 opposite eachother, and they're hugely impacted by the lighting settings. Colour scheme and lighting is everything when making a space scene look good.

Look at homeworld 2, the tanis shipyard, with the gigantic relics in the background orbitting a blue star behind the shipyard, there are no other features of objects in that map save the shipyard itself and the ships yet it looks good.

Image
Image

Everything fits together in a blue atmospheric view, and the whole thing feels and looks good, and it's all lighting+skybox.
See how the whole use of lighting makes this image look good:

Image
Image

Everything fits and complements, including the ships.

Another aspect of skyboxes everyone gets wrong si that they plonk a planet and thats it. The entire scene is intermixed. Whats happening on part of your starscape isnt isolated and it ahs a direct consequence on the rest, else it wont look realistic, and it'll clash.

See this orange nebula goes all the way around under and over the top continuosly, surrounding the user as if it's a spherical piece of art. Now make a hole in that nebula with stars and plop one of your planet pictures in it and it'll look terribly out of place. It wont even look 3D, it'll look like a sprite...

Without the skyboxes and matching lighting, homeworld would loose about 90% of its graphical goodness, the weapons and the ships just wouldnt look right, they'd all start to clash and it'd look raw and unproffesional, as if no thought had gone into it past the models and techtree.

Your more likely to get good skyboxes out of these:

http://67.15.36.49/articles/Space/image ... e_pic1.jpg
http://67.15.36.49/articles/Space/image ... d_pic2.jpg
http://67.15.36.49/articles/Space/image ... e_pic3.jpg
http://67.15.36.49/articles/Space/image ... d_pic3.jpg

Also if you look closely at the hoemworld space scenes, they're not particularly high resolution, if anything they seem cartoony up close, yet they look brilliant because the loss of resolution is assumed to be a facet of the objects being so far away, and the fact that no one part of the skybox in a HW map is focused on by the user, rather they've been laid outto make the user want to look around than stay fixated at a spot, or they exploit lighting so that there's no need for immense detail, as the lighting on the image does all the work.

Once again I stress the importance of setting up lighting so the sun is coming from a light source that matches the light source ont he skybox and matche the hue of everything else in the skybox so that they complement. You want tod raw the ships into the scene, not the scene into the ships.. Thats why homeworld maps can seem so serene untill something comes up and a battle occurs, in which case it helps calm and concentrate you, as the music itself keys in with the whole scene. How good your space map looks is relative to the time effort and skill involved in the skyboxes creation.
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LordMatt
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Post by LordMatt »

ONOES, PROFESSIONAL GAMES LOOK BETTER THAN SPRING THATS MADE IN PPLS SPARE TIME. :shock:

tbh, though, most people barely see the skybox at all, because they play in TA mode.
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AF
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Post by AF »

oh yes they can on a proper space map. A half decent space map wont have a ground texture because the ground has been deliberatly made totally transparent.

Half decent space maps are within our grasp but badmethodology prevents us from reaching them. Simply saying that those sorts of maps are impossible because they're in proffesional games is just silly. Spring is much better than many proffesionally made commercial RTS engines.
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Fanger
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Post by Fanger »

AF, thats great, NO one is arguing that its not possible to make good looking space maps.. what people are arguing is that There is NO reason to make good space maps, because FF is a very niche mod like gundam and EE and honestly Unless some mapper decides to make maps for it.. were not getting any.. that is how it works..
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AF
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Post by AF »

Thats equivilant to "we dont need pretty maps"
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ralphie
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Post by ralphie »

edit: nevermind
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