Spring RTS Engine

Hi guys...

I'm an experienced OTA mapmaker but a little new to this Spring lark so was wondering if I could get any help.

Created a map using Mother's Mapconv. I dont think I'm using the new SM3 format, but can't be sure because I haven't been around long enough to distinguish one type from another. smd file created using a program called the "SMD Creator" (original title) but syntax of the file looks easy enough to even do it manually. As it stands, I need a texture map, height map, metal map and feature map for Mother's compiler. I've got all of these. It compiles and I can run it. I'm compressing successfully to the sd7 file. My commander spawns, metal is placed ok etc.

Two problems:
1. It appears that about 1/5th of one side and a 1/6th of another side of the map is missing. It stops tiling the map texture for whatever reason. The height map is still working, but it's transparent. I can send units onto this "invisible" surface, but don't know what's causing the problem.

2. Placing geo's seemed easy enough. 1 green blob here, 1 green blob there. I placed a total of 16 geos on the map, 4 in each corner, nicely spaced. However when the map compiles it reports 48 features placed. I enter the game and there is a big cluster of geo spots very close together in one corner, and at the opposite corner the same. I know enough to say 48 is a multiple of 16 but that's all. I've only used 1 pixel per geo on the feature map (0,255,0) but can't figure out why so many are being placed, nor why they're bunched up. Any ideas?

I heard from somewhere that geos should be placed on flat terrain so they'd work correctly. I had some weird geo multiplying issues too when my geo spots were on some rough terrain. Could it be something like that?

This is a bug that happens alot to others. When placing geos.
Select a spot on thats somewhat flat area with no trees around it.
Also, if your metal map and height map is 1025x1025. Your feature
map should be 1024x1024. I've ran into this problem all time and
it takes a few tries to get it right on the placement of the geos.

ok muffy, to spare you the harsh criticisms youa re going to get very soon...

You cannot directly port a map from ota to spring. #1 it will look like shit. In ota a 16x16 maps had a 4096x4096 texture map. In spring a 16x16 is 8192x8192, the scale (or jsut about) is the same as in ota because the units were scaled up as well.

You need to create/render terrain for the map, at the very worst you could stretch the 4096x4096 image to 8192x8192, however, that looks absolutely terrible.

Google, l3dt, it will become your best friend quickly.

BTW for geos, ground must be perfectly flat, and have no features near it (like trees).

Tbh, it doesnt look too bad at all. May be a one off but it looks fine to me.

I actually used the Annihilator editor that I used to create a lot of maps for OTA to produce the bitmap I have now. its 4800 x 3840. The height map exported from the Annihilator editor was 300 x 240 which meant simply multiplying it by 2 to get it to 1/8th the resolution of the texture map and then adding one for your extra pixel in the height map. It hasn't turned out blocky at all. Fact is, I have an image which by all accounts should fit against the height map and its showing up invisible.

The geo problem sounds like I might be able to sort it with a bit of flat terrain. I'll give that a shot.

Still unclear as to #1 though, the invisible terrain... The bitmaps all match up in terms of size. Perhaps thats not where the problem lies? I'll screenshot it.

And I'm also not afraid to take criticism because if its personal criticism well screw it I've been mapping in Spring for less than 24 hours and I'll learn the code quickly. If it's criticising my maps, then constructive criticism please. Truth is for OTA I made well over 100 individual maps not inc. map packs, modelled enough my own tilesets to cover your ------- floor and released the most popular 3rd party campaign there ever was for TA.

Thanks for helping me out guys. Tis much appreciated. Everyone starts out a noob :)

Forboding Angel wrote:ok muffy, to spare you the harsh criticisms youa re going to get very soon...

You cannot directly port a map from ota to spring. #1 it will look like shit. In ota a 16x16 maps had a 4096x4096 texture map. In spring a 16x16 is 8192x8192, the scale (or jsut about) is the same as in ota because the units were scaled up as well.

You need to create/render terrain for the map, at the very worst you could stretch the 4096x4096 image to 8192x8192, however, that looks absolutely terrible.

Google, l3dt, it will become your best friend quickly.

BTW for geos, ground must be perfectly flat, and have no features near it (like trees).

Just got to step in here

As myself being the most experienced in the quirks of OTA to Spring porting (trust me guys, there are a lot of maps that i've ported that i won't release for the sake that they didn't convert very well)

Its not the Texturemap that is it half spring resolution, its the Heightmap. In OTA and Spring the texturemap is the same size, its just that the Heightmap in OTA is half the resolution that Spring's is, and that is where the terrain miss-match comes from. though i have had some success in lining up some texturemaps.

I still dont understand though how I can follow the mapmaking process described in the tutorial (regardless as to where the images themselves come from) provided I have an image that is 1/8th and 1 pixel the size of the texture map for the height map and it doesn't fit? It's one pixel per vertex which is why you need that extra one. Surely it would screw up for every other image I tried if the ratio was a problem? I don't see what's going wrong here. It shouldn't matter what the texture itself is. It could be of a huge goose named "Duck" but as long as that height map is 1/8th and 1 pixel the size of the texture image, they should match up, right?

I don't know if I explained it properly. The textured image is actually being cut short. Not all of it is actually displayed. The texture file would fill the entire map if it werent for the bits actually being cut out of the textured image. It's not a case of the textured image being too small - its actually being made invisible before it reaches the edge of the terrain where it should end. Ill screenshot it for you now...



You can see on the one below, the metal spot is actually being cut short. Its not just the textured image, its the underlying metal map too. The radar image also shows units appearing on land. If the images were the wrong size, shouldnt the compiler throw a wobbler when I compile all 4 images together? It's like the data is actually being discarded prior to display, a lot like when data is discarded in the form of coloured pixels from a transparent gif.

Either of these things could be causing the issue or atleast contributing to it..... 1. No nvdxt file (although I'm not sure if the map would have made it this far without it) Make sure you have the nvdxt exe in the same folder as the map your trying to compile. 2. Grayscale heightmap. I once had a map show up very strangely (although different from yours I must admit) and the problem was I had saved my heightmap in grayscale instead of indexed color/RGB. 3. Messed up SMD file. It seems like I remember the SMD generating program being bugged (could be wrong). You might want to just copy a SMD directly from another map and see if that fixes it.

The geo problem could be caused by your featuremap being 1/8th+1 pixels, instead of just 1/8th.

Also if you plan on creating some original maps for spring I suggest getting L3dt. If you've been making maps with tilesets/annihilator than rendering a terrain in L3DT would be a breath of fresh air..

a: dont use windwos messenger, use msn messenger to trillian or miranda or gaim instead. Widnwos messenge ris a security risk and even microsoft reccomends you remove it.

b: You ahve no security programs running in the background! I see thats ecurity itme int he taskbar but thats not an antivirus or firewall running in the background, you should ahve both running at all times.

c: Disable your LAN network adapter id device manager unless you're using it. You have a wifi connection and a unnconnected wired connection, disable it as it's eating resources when ti isnt needed.

d: for something like that those units look very far away, maybe your texture and heightmap files arent 100% matching scale wise as they should be?

PRO_Muffy,

When making maps, their are a few rules you need to know.

* the texture map should be sized in multiples of 512 ...

EXAMPLE : 8192 ... you should be able to divide it by 512 or
1024 and get a whole number. For 8192 .. you
should get a "16" ..

* the metal map, 1/8 +1 of your texture map size. So, if its
8192 ... divde it by 8 and add a pixel. You will end up with
1025.

* the height map, 1/8 +1 of your texture map size. So, if its
8192 ... divde it by 8 and add a pixel. You will end up with
1025.

* the feature map, 1/8 of your texture map size. So, if its
8192 ... divde it by 8. You will end up with 1024.

* the type map, 1/8 +1 of your texture map size. So, if its
8192 ... divde it by 8 and add a pixel. You will end up with
1025.

If you follow these rules, you shouldn't have any major
problems compiling your maps.

The apps used to make Spring maps, that up to you
and the apps you have on hand.

I hope some of this info helps you out.

I've gotten weird issues like this before and I usually just recompile and try again... I would recomend trying to build a simple unit map and make sure that you can do that before wating processor time on a real render... I have a link that will help with that.

http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=3659

genblood wrote:PRO_Muffy,

When making maps, their are a few rules you need to know.

* the texture map should be sized in multiples of 512 ...

EXAMPLE : 8192 ... you should be able to divide it by 512 or
1024 and get a whole number. For 8192 .. you
should get a "16" ..

That'll be it. Nowhere in the tutorials I looked at had anyone mentioned that. Nor until now had anyone mentioned it here, so a big thanks dude...

The geo problem is solved. I'll bear that in mind in the future. The geos do in fact need flat ground. Will attempt to reclaim my land from the "Nothing".

In addition, I will get my hands on ld3d but I'm not into downloading Photoshop for free or any of that garbage. People may however be interested in knowing that the demo of Jasc Paint Shop Pro 6 had a bug in it that meant it never expired. That is free. :) Up until now I've actually just been using paint and Annihilator. 16 colours ftw.

AF wrote: a: dont use windwos messenger, use msn messenger to trillian or miranda or gaim instead. Widnwos messenge ris a security risk and even microsoft reccomends you remove it.

b: You ahve no security programs running in the background! I see thats ecurity itme int he taskbar but thats not an antivirus or firewall running in the background, you should ahve both running at all times.

c: Disable your LAN network adapter id device manager unless you're using it. You have a wifi connection and a unnconnected wired connection, disable it as it's eating resources when ti isnt needed.

d: for something like that those units look very far away, maybe your texture and heightmap files arent 100% matching scale wise as they should be?

a: can't argue with that but I use it through convenience.
b: I have an industry strength McAfee antivirus program running in the background provided by the university which updates daily. I have no worries.
c: I'd just unplugged the cable to go wireless because my sister nearly tripped herself up and pulled the network card out the back of the machine. Wireless lags but still works.
d: The scale of the map is fine. I just zoomed out to give people a better look. There aren't any other features on the map atm other than geos and mex spots.

hmm, so is the invisible part of the map much lower height than the normal? Thats what it looks like when you look at the size of that mex spot+radar tower compared ot the tiny factories in the greeny invisible part...


Are your heightmap and texture map Jpegs?

BTW, DONT use the SMD creator. It sucks ass and is bugged like hell. Dont use it. Its one of the worst programs I have ever made.

gpp!

Yay GPP!