Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

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Shadoan
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Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Shadoan » 20 Nov 2019, 20:23

This thread is just for sh*t's and giggles; but a thought occurred to me, If someone made a MOBA using the Spring RTS. DOTA was originally a mod for Warcraft 3 before Blizzard picked it up and Before League made their own afterwards.... and tried to sue Valve; though failed in the lawsuit, since their originality wasn't original. I know it's not the official reason why they lost, but bare with me, I'm getting off track with poor jokes.

I wanted to post this to see what kind of insane ideas for a MOBA could be generated and hear everyone else's ideas if they had any. Does the idea need to work in practice? World no; this is just for fun. If someone attempts an idea listed here in Spring as a mod, go for it; I think some of us would like to try our ideas for the fun of it, no matter how insane it is.

If I had to kick things off-

A 2D MOBA using SNES inspired pixel art and all of the characters would be spiritual successors to old game characters never brought into Today's generation! Like Geno from Super Mario RPG; his ult could be his ultimate spell from the same game and one of his skills could be an arm cannon! Or Boogerman!... Which, I won't write out his skills, but you get the picture.

Why this would not work? A 2D MOBA? As much as I'd like to see one of even a Demake of Dota 2; I don't think anyone would jump on board to tackle this. Too much sprite work maybe? Heck, I'd even settle for 2.5D to see this insane dream come true.

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A Moba where the characters skills are based on card.
and No, I'm not talking about Valve's attempt to cash in on Hearthstone through Artifact; I mean where a player would have a starter deck of skills at the beginning of each game, they buy item cards from a shop to act as passive's or give instant heal and everytime they level up, free cards are added to their deck based on a skill they look for along with a handy bonus of a fragile or destroy-able card that gives a handy use.


Why this would not work?
Deck based skills in a full action game; interesting on paper, though it would be chaos in practice. Players would blame their luck on the skills they need on RNG when they could sell their cards back to a shop to lessen their deck and further improve their odds of better draws per pull. Even then; how would decks and discarding work? When you run outta cards,m all you get is a basic attack? How do you restock cards fairly? If the heroes have a MANA system, how do determine cost's fairly? Can you customize the cards the hero gets per level? There's a sh*t ton of uneasy answers here.

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Forboding Angel
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Forboding Angel » 23 Nov 2019, 02:42

It's actually already been done about 13 years ago or so
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MasterBel
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by MasterBel » 23 Nov 2019, 02:45

really like the crazy ideas, pity they have problems, but if you come up with anymore I'd love to hear them!

@Forb, what was the other MOBA? How did that go?
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PicassoCT
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by PicassoCT » 23 Nov 2019, 10:44

Engines of War.

Quietly, because it was loads of work.
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Shadoan
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Shadoan » 23 Nov 2019, 11:46

Forboding Angel wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 02:42
It's actually already been done about 13 years ago or so
Well; Still, this thread is here for fun; I'm open to hearing new and more outlandish Mechanics.
PicassoCT wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 10:44
Engines of War.

Quietly, because it was loads of work.
Tried googling it and coulnd't really find it. Not trying to be a pain or noob about it here; but was it pulled out of production or the public eye?
MasterBel wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 02:45
really like the crazy ideas, pity they have problems, but if you come up with anymore I'd love to hear them!

@Forb, what was the other MOBA? How did that go?
A 3 v 3 or 2 v 2 Moba using the graphical capabilities of Nintendo 64 + Controller, using C-buttons for skills/spells in a Super Mario 64 Environment
I... Really don't need to go into better details than this. Anyone growing up in the 90's and your first 3D game console was a Nintendo 64, you know what type of multi-player powerhouse this was; better than the PS1 and up to 4 players... Infact, an N64 + Pizza + Soda + A copy of Golden eye, Mario Party 2 and Pokemon Stadium 2 with anime from the 1990's to watch afterwards like Akira or Iria or even BIG O sounds good about now with a few good friends who have the night off.... beat's poker night at a bar.

Why this would not work?
First, Not trying to be an old-timer, but Super Mario 64 is a game you can't really perfect when, it in a lot of ways, is already perfected. Second, how would this even work out? Goomba Minions and Toad Minions maybe to start off attacking each other might make SOME sense, but how? The players stomp them and explore the level for coins to buy gear even, but would player fighting work? Would is be like the Forgotten Super Mario Wars for... (pick a console to run homebrew on and insert it here) or would if just be Mario's punching and kicking until they level up? Even then, I don't think spring could support this... I mean, it probably can, but not N64 Controller support or the free 3D movement that Mario 64 needs.... Well, maybe Unity or some other free engine like GoDot... who knows? Also to add on so I'll hush about it is if Nintendo decides to enter this Genre.... I mean, Nintendo Enters the FPS Genre with Splatoon where the objective is to make a bigger mess than your opponents and it's an instant classic over night. If they decide to tackle this Genre, there's no telling what they could come up with if they wanted too.

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While I'm on the band-wagon of using Well known IP's
The Simpsons
.... The Simpsons in a MOBA; this could literally work, with each resident of spring field being a champion with their own special skills and crazier items to buy... Like Moleman being able to copy himself and summon other Moleman to explode or Itchy and Scratchy bringing their cartoon Violence to the battlefield.

Why this would not work?
I don't think Matt G. is in the mood to develop anymore Simpson games... and I mean it, the last good one's I remember we're the platform they made and the level-focused GTA where the boss man himself, kicked Marge all the way to the Kwik-e-mart.... And the rest is The Simpsons Tapped out; I think he's just kicking back and earning off of his Empire while wanting to explore new things with his creativity while he's still alive in which, I don't blame him.

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Full Action, Xcmon Mechanic Moba
The title of this idea says it all, but allow me to clarify. Unless you avoid Indie games like the plague, there's a title called Satellite Reign which was one of those Kickstarter games. The game never got fully funded, but the developer's had balls of steel to not only publish their game, but add every feature listed on their stretch goals, especially features that never broke certain limits. They even gave the game away for free for a small period of time on it's release and the game functions like the title of this wild idea. You can control up to 4 agents or host a game and bring in up to 3 friends and coordinate Blade-Runner like Operations, hiring scientists to create weapons and upgrade your players bodies or replicates, fight the corporations and steal their stuff and so on. If you got some cash and a buddy to help you out, I recommend checking it out as soon as possible.... or check youtube, but I digress. It's a top-down RTS-Xcom game where you can find cover,m have your weapons out and there are no turns, it's all fast and real time action where you need to make a decision.

Why this would not work?
Technically, out of all the wild IDEAS that are popping into my head, this one COULD technically work if it was built now, if you can incorporate some of the stealth elements Satellite Reign has. The only downside is, what kind of magic, skills or spells would you put into this title to make it worth while?
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zwzsg
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by zwzsg » 23 Nov 2019, 14:53

I hate the click-to-move, click-to-attack, wait-for-timer to spellcast controls of MOBA, but the main idea of controlling a powerful hero amongst warring streams of minions appeals to me, so precisely ten years ago, I made such a gamemode for Kernel Panic: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=21115&p=403077
That post is old enough for all its image and link to have died, but the gamemode is still available in latest Kernel Panic:
https://springrts.com/wiki/Kernel_Panic#Download_links:
Too long and boring videos of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUnwnykPUg0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBpoIF0LmAs




A 2D MOBA using SNES inspired pixel art and all of the characters would be spiritual successors to old game characters never brought into Today's generation!
This has triply nothing to do with Spring!

There was at least one semi successful 2D moba in the market, though : Awesonauts, released in 2012, turned F2P in 2017. It's of course different from the one of your imagination.

A Moba where the characters skills are based on card.
You, sir, have about as imagination as a suit!
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Forboding Angel » 24 Nov 2019, 21:20

zwzsg wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 14:53
This has triply nothing to do with Spring!
To be fair, this post is in the off topic forum
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Shadoan
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Shadoan » 25 Nov 2019, 09:12

zwzsg wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 14:53
A 2D MOBA using SNES inspired pixel art and all of the characters would be spiritual successors to old game characters never brought into Today's generation!
This has triply nothing to do with Spring!
Like Forboding Angel Mentioned, this is in the Off Topic board; This type of topic can't really exist much anywhere else and this I thought would be the most fitting.

Even then, this topic is just for fun; not accuracy, not being correct or anything even REMOTELY related TO spring though some relation can be drawn to it, this is just for the pure fun of chaos and playing with ideas.... And imagination as a suit?... What does that even mean? Is it an insult, a compliment, both? Are ya saying you can't have fun like this?

Speaking of...

A player Hunting their skills on an open map; which is exactly as it sounds. Players get a set of warriors with one passive and one skill special to them. From here, they will need go out to into the map and either kill minions/creeps or other jungle creatures to steal skills from them in order to build themselves up to be powerful warriors. Having access to only a set amount of skills in terms of slots. Each Level up on a slot improves the power of the skill within that slot.

Why would this not work?
The game's dynamic would shift fast and the players would be scrambling for the best skills they can try to get to first before the other team until the game just becomes a moot point like League of Legends where a comeback rate in that is about a 0.45%-4% chance... Except in this case much worse. You could argue the players could buy skills + items to get a leg up to make a simple comeback and I can see the logic in that, but I would need to see it in practice first.
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MasterBel
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by MasterBel » 25 Nov 2019, 17:42

Shadoan wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 09:12
… Each Level up on a slot improves the power of the skill within that slot.

Why would this not work?
The game's dynamic would shift fast and the players would be scrambling for the best skills they can try to get to first before the other team until the game just becomes a moot point like League of Legends where a comeback rate in that is about a 0.45%-4% chance... Except in this case much worse. You could argue the players could buy skills + items to get a leg up to make a simple comeback and I can see the logic in that, but I would need to see it in practice first.
Hmm… so what if they started with the best skills? The more skills you have, the less each skill improves your strength. If a skill drops you might want to prevent others from attaining that skill even while you can't pick it up. Collecting a skill could have some temporary negative effect, also, so there's a tradeoff between attaining a skill and just going in. Say, the process of equipping a skill would disable you for a period of time, weakening your team for a (potentially) relatively small benefit … but with enough skill and planning, the benefit could be enough to pay off
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Shadoan
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Shadoan » 25 Nov 2019, 22:18

MasterBel wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 17:42
Shadoan wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 09:12
… Each Level up on a slot improves the power of the skill within that slot.

Why would this not work?
The game's dynamic would shift fast and the players would be scrambling for the best skills they can try to get to first before the other team until the game just becomes a moot point like League of Legends where a comeback rate in that is about a 0.45%-4% chance... Except in this case much worse. You could argue the players could buy skills + items to get a leg up to make a simple comeback and I can see the logic in that, but I would need to see it in practice first.
Hmm… so what if they started with the best skills? The more skills you have, the less each skill improves your strength. If a skill drops you might want to prevent others from attaining that skill even while you can't pick it up. Collecting a skill could have some temporary negative effect, also, so there's a tradeoff between attaining a skill and just going in. Say, the process of equipping a skill would disable you for a period of time, weakening your team for a (potentially) relatively small benefit … but with enough skill and planning, the benefit could be enough to pay off
Huh.... Then if that's actually doable, then has anyone attempted it? As in, created their own game engine, champs in said title and published it? I'm actually curious. If not, then I wonder why not...
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Google_Frog
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Google_Frog » 26 Nov 2019, 15:04

zwzsg wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 14:53
I hate the click-to-move, click-to-attack, wait-for-timer to spellcast controls of MOBA, but the main idea of controlling a powerful hero amongst warring streams of minions appeals to me
I doubt Spring has enough of a focus on low latency to support a clicky MOBA anyway. Something like War Evo in which you control fairly slow robots that have various special abilities and tactically try to flank each other could work.
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FLOZi
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by FLOZi » 01 Dec 2019, 17:27

Google_Frog wrote:
26 Nov 2019, 15:04
zwzsg wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 14:53
I hate the click-to-move, click-to-attack, wait-for-timer to spellcast controls of MOBA, but the main idea of controlling a powerful hero amongst warring streams of minions appeals to me
I doubt Spring has enough of a focus on low latency to support a clicky MOBA anyway. Something like War Evo in which you control fairly slow robots that have various special abilities and tactically try to flank each other could work.
Congratulations, you just described MCL.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Make a MOBA! ~ The impossible Spring?

Post by Forboding Angel » 03 Dec 2019, 03:54

And Gundam RTS for that matter.
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