Spring RTS Engine

Hello,

i configured my SPADS host to use a mod similar to BA so trueskill database should be that same used by BA.
How to link trueskill balancement to BA database or even a new one?
Without that players wont ever play in any autohost with new mod and this cut any possibility for new mods to become popular.

Thanks in advance for the help.

quakeman2 wrote:i configured my SPADS host to use a mod similar to BA so trueskill database should be that same used by BA.

No.

quakeman2 wrote:How to link trueskill balancement to BA database

Two different mods should not use the same database. But it is technically possible to initialize a new database for your game from the BA database of course.

quakeman2 wrote:or even a new one?

If you want TrueSkill to be enabled for your game you just need to ask here, providing the name template used by your mod including version number.

This is my mod config file.
Could you fix the database for me please?

http://pastebin.com/WkXuCeRq

Then can you explain how is linked? I mean which string the DB checks to be valid...

Thanks

I added your game to the list of TrueSkill enabled games.

SLDB just checks the names of the games as seen by players in the lobby, for example "Balanced Annihilation VX.YZ" for BA.

Thank you very much for the support.

Hope it will be possible to link a mod with an existing mod's database in the future.

Is it natural that there is 'None' for the ts here: http://replays.springrts.com/replay/35b ... ec3dc33b4/

quakeman2 wrote:Thank you very much for the support.

Hope it will be possible to link a mod with an existing mod's database in the future.

What do you mean by "link a mod with an existing mod's database" ?

MasterBel2 wrote:Is it natural that there is 'None' for the ts here: http://replays.springrts.com/replay/35b ... ec3dc33b4/

No, maybe something must be done at replay site side to declare new TS enabled games.
At SLDB side all is ok and TS is computed normally for this game.

bibim wrote:

quakeman2 wrote:Thank you very much for the support.

Hope it will be possible to link a mod with an existing mod's database in the future.

What do you mean by "link a mod with an existing mod's database" ?

Means that i would like to use BA TS database for my mod which looks like a very natural choice considering that is derived from original BA.
This is actually a really blocking thing for new forks of existing mods and make new forks startup extremely tough.
Everyone have been asking why i don't have same BA TS database linked and i have to keep saying "ask to TS database maintainers nothing i can do".

Hope you'll be openminded enough and understand this.

quakeman2 wrote:Means that i would like to use BA TS database for my mod which looks like a very natural choice considering that is derived from original BA.
This is actually a really blocking thing for new forks of existing mods and make new forks startup extremely tough.
Everyone have been asking why i don't have same BA TS database linked and i have to keep saying "ask to TS database maintainers nothing i can do".

Hope you'll be openminded enough and understand this.

It seems you are implying that I would be narrow-minded if I didn't let everyone coming with a random fork of BA share the same TS database as BA. But you have to understand that sharing the same TS database actually means that all games played with a random BA fork would alter original BA rankings... This makes no sense, only forks that have the approbation of the relevant responsible persons (BA maintainers) should be allowed to share the same TS database, obviously. Hence my question: do you have the approbation of current BA maintainers to use and update their TS database?

Hope you'll be openminded enough and understand this.

make forks

Fyi, most games give guidelines on how to make mutators and forks from them, and how they should be named to avoid confusion & impersonation. In BAs case you can find these guidelines at viewtopic.php?f=44&t=23943.

In short, the Spring community encourages forks + content sharing and has a lot of it. It does not encourage imitating someone else's content without asking them.

Silentwings wrote:

make forks

Fyi, most games give guidelines on how to make mutators and forks from them, and how they should be named to avoid confusion & impersonation. In BAs case you can find these guidelines at viewtopic.php?f=44&t=23943.

In short, the Spring community encourages forks + content sharing and has a lot of it. It does not encourage imitating someone else's content without asking them.

Obviously you don't know all the facts:

1) I wrote clearly in my "fork" description about the people who made it starting from the BA dev and me at the bottom. I can even completely remove my name as i really don't mind... (i cant impress girls or make money saying i'm BA dev)
2) I asked 100 times.... "Tell me which name i should use and i'll change to that as i have no idea what might go on in devs mind with some name i might choose"

So ... since you "encourage" forks can you please tell me which name i should use and what should i write in the description? I'll immediately change and finish with this pathetic story.

Also.... after this title problem is gone, will you link the normal BA TS database to my mod? (please answer this before you have me to waste time)

I have not seen your game or read description etc - I am only linking to relevant info that you seemed unaware of.

I asked 100 times.... "Tell me which name i should use

I don't see it asked anywhere. BAs guidelines on naming/mutators/forks seem clear enough to me but if you need help with them you should ask the BA devs.

will you link the normal BA TS database to my mod?

As far as I can see bibim (who runs the TrueSkill infrastructure) has already made the situation and reasons for it clear in viewtopic.php?f=88&t=35558&p=579429#p579425 - for this you need approval from BAs devs.

bibim wrote: You have to understand that sharing the same TS database actually means that all games played with a random BA fork would alter original BA rankings...

And then? Do you think people playing a BA fork would have different skill than normal BA?

bibim wrote: This makes no sense, only forks that have the approbation of the relevant responsible persons (BA maintainers) should be allowed to share the same TS database, obviously. Hence my question: do you have the approbation of current BA maintainers to use and update their TS database?

Hope you'll be openminded enough and understand this.

Strange i though TS database informations belongs to the players and not to the mod maintainers.
And a player has total freedom to decide if he is ok to share same TS ranking with the forked mod or not.
That's why what you say really doesn't make sense.
Then initialize my database with BA one and from there it will be forked.
Otherwise is extremely tough to have a fork to get popular. (and this raise many suspicious questions in my mind)

quakeman2, they're right. Personally I think games shouldn't share ts at all. Just think about it - does 1v1, ffa, team ffa, and team all share the same trueskill? No. Why? Because even small changes to gameplay will affect how well people play. Some peoples strategies will work better. It'll highlight a different kind of talent. Plus the changes may be substantial enough yet hidden enough that players don't realise their BA strategies won't work in REBa, and that their REBa strategies won't work in BA. This all suggests that no matter who you are, linking true skills of different mods is not a good idea.

I would be much less likely to play your mod (and BA for that matter) if their trueskills became linked. It makes no sense. Quite honestly that would move me to playing TechA. And if the devs say no - they said no.

As a BA player I say no to the two being linked.

Although, initialising from another doesn't seem such a bad idea… Is this possible bibim? Silentwings?

As already said, and we are now on repetition #3, attempts to imitate someone else's content without getting their approval are not encouraged.

One last time: if you want your (new/forked/mutated/etc) game to resemble BA or any other game, you should either (a) follow its guidelines for doing so or (b) get special approval from its developers.

Attempt to imitate? Imitate means trying to do the same in my vocabulary. He is start from a model and do something different.
Ok so please explain what should i do because i really don't understand what i'm doing wrong with the guidelines.
Anyway i'm sure that whatever i do, even if i follow exaclty the guidelines you'll invent other nonsense excuses to let this thing be so though to be abandoned.

Sounds like very open project.

Anyway i will wait for your reply about these "guidelines i'm violating" and how to fix that before i take my last decision.

I don't see any need to provide clarity on why "REBalanced Annihilation V9.44.0" might be viewed as resembling "Balanced Annihilation V9.44", or why repeatedly asking to share a skill database without first asking the devs might be viewed as imitation.

As already said, if you need advice on viewtopic.php?f=44&t=23943#p447341 you should contact the BA devs. Your apparent reluctance to do so is unlikely to aid your cause.

Silentwings wrote:I don't see any need to provide clarity on why "REBalanced Annihilation V9.44.0" might be viewed as resembling "Balanced Annihilation V9.44".

D:
Of course it's resembling Balance Annihilation... it is Balanced Anninilation base with new balance.
That's why REBalanced Annihilation... so which is the problem?? xD
How else should i explain what i'm trying to do from the name?

As far as I can see viewtopic.php?f=44&t=23943#p447341 makes it clear that the appropriate thing to do in that situation is contact BAs devs, since you would clearly need their approval.