Spring RTS Engine

Tell me about ba, well it has peewees, rocket bots, an hlt, dsd afus, snipers, zeuses and a bombers. Oh, that sounds interesting. Yes, and there is more, but its not really that much used, so...

Im saying why not nudge less used units towards more usage? Why is it called balanced if average battle has well over 50% arm rebel players and you always see snipers and zeus. Lots of zeus.

Commando is a good example, who used it before it became something, before it became a trollmando! And then it was nerfed back a bit. But it was a good nerf. Now its good. Doesnt see much usage after 20 minutes, but still... But to fix that, give it a cloakability with gigantic energy drain = good ish for later game trollmandoing too.

Sniper still very very much used. Because very powerful magical mythic unit. Makes t2 tanks disappear. Makes bases disappear. But its good for rez bots, less work for them, all metal sent to 5th layer of hell by magical mythic unit. Just a tad longer reload time? Inability to shoot while moving? Now it encourages spam and lag(see above, t2 tanks disappear). Ive even been kicked from a game for using t1 spam against magical mythic unit, I was so sad.

Zeus, lots of them. Less quantity, more quality?

Why be crawling bombs so expensive? Not used if there is no water. Why use fidos when you can spam zeus. Why use maverick? Because mav not that usable. Goddamn super cool regeneration and exp gain is worth nothing really when armor and hitpoints are shitty. Double its exp hitpoint gain. Or better, double exp hitpoint gains for all units, triple for mav. Reward good microing, you really cant tell any difference between 0 exp unit and a 3.0 exp unit.

Why make tanks when you can make zeus.

Leveler so slow. Well all that energy used to make its kick-ass armor must slow it down..... You can kiss pw spam goodbye if someone makes the double mistake of going core and then t1 vehicles as core. !xenope so wrong.

Penetrator good, but good in good way, as it really blows up when it dies. Less penetrative balls. Balls in the game should be penalized, dont need no balls in this game. Then again, why make penetrators when you can make snipers. Why make vehicles when you can make zeus with snipers.

Core t2 bots see good range of use. In some battles people even use something else than just advanced crawling bomb spam. Nerf that unit, really. Or delete it.

Needs a Unit with a shield (against sniper bullets) and a Farraday cage then?

it's been said before, and ignored before.

boring games. Same story every time.

people complaining about snipers gain this perspective by playing games containing far too much of one or more of the following:

DSD
More than 8 Players in game
noobs

Play 4v4 comet catcher and behold, snipers are not op.

Yeah, right, why do you play on maps that de-balance the game?

kapytii wrote:it's been said before

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=32524#p561262, which was shortly after an increase in their costs & buildtime. Maybe they should be slowed down a little too.

snipers seem more an FFA-thing to me, but I do not play so many big games. But at least these two things I agree with:

all metal sent to 5th layer of hell by magical mythic unit

For example a HLT is one-shoted or two-shoted by sniper and no wreckage remains. So even if you killed the snipers, it is harder to rebuild.
In compersion if HLT is killed by morties then there is wreckage to reclaim.
"Overkill" exists in other cases too but with snipers it feels bit annoying...

Ive even been kicked from a game for using t1 spam against magical mythic unit, I was so sad.

Counter to sniper is scout spam or other cheap fast stuff. If there is decent number of snipers (plus some other units) it needs lots of spam to "over spam" them...can get laggy.

IMHO, Snipers are not overpowered against Arm players: build Zippers and scout. Zippers can run past protecting units to the snipers -if there are any- and then kill them quickly. You loose some -in the end maybe even all-, but they are cheap.
To me, it's Core that seems to have a disadvantage here.

Anyway: Sniper sound could be louder so you really notice them immediatly if you missed scouting or are occupied elsewhere.
Other than that, I wouldn't nerf them too much since then they quickly become useless... and that would be a pity, too. They are one of the more interesting units.
Maybe less health, so they are even more a one-shot unit. And/or less range, so hiding gets more difficult on the way to the target.
But that's just my 2 cents...

I agree on the Fido and Maverick. Compared with Zeus they seem not attractive. They could get some improvement; combined with nerfing some other ability to make them fit some special tactic.

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:people complaining about snipers gain this perspective by playing games containing far too much of one or more of the following:

DSD
More than 8 Players in game
noobs

Play 4v4 comet catcher and behold, snipers are not op.

I love a good comet catcher. But comet catcher is a metal rich map, (almost a metal map), and not like most maps. Snipers are energy based units, which is nice on maps where metal is not as abundant.

Plus, comet catcher almost never gets to T3, which is when snipers become magic units. They own everything, including t3.

Fuckers complaining about Sniper in every game I play.

I can echo that the issue isn't so-much in Snipers being overpowered per say, but rather the fact that Core has no good counter to them.

Arm has Zippers and Fleas and the better vehicle scout, so they're more prepared to take on Snipers. The slower-paced Core has no similar means to battle against Sniper + Zeus groups. AKs are eaten too quickly by Zeus. Of Core's other units, Pyros and Cans and Morties are simply too slow to become effective.

When I started thinking about it, I realized that my T1vsT2 tweak suggestion would actually affect this, too, in that it'd make AKs have slightly more viability to be used in large masses vs. Snipers.

I do fear, though, that this isn't exactly the best solution. Using heavy spam to counter a tactic has always felt a little cheap and counterintuitive to me; It moves the game from battle tactics to who dared to eco up the most.

However, it's still better than no solution, I'd imagine.

i played BA recently and i agree snipers are overpowered.

They are unforgiving, stealthy, shots are invisible and never miss, and their dps is simply too high : 250dps at 900 range for a 900 converted cost unit, ouch! (although some is wasted due to overkill).

i've looked at some numbers and seemed that, as core, and after having army with thuds, aks and some cans, making some dominators is pretty good, they (are op) are affordable, have pretty good dps and outrange snipers (and most defenses). Problem is, they miss. Also snipers usually pair with radar jammers, making dominators ineffective.

People seem to mass one unit type more often than not.

Didn't try supporting dominators with air factory spamming scouts or those annoying paralyzer aircraft, though. That might work.

Give Pyro a riot-shield, that can be out-flanked and makes him slow