Spring RTS Engine

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 12:18**

Forboding Angel wrote:"Here is what licho and I have come up with, and it allows ZKL and SL to live in harmony and provides us all with features for the future. Does anyone have issues with doing it this way, or does anyone have anyone have suggestions on how to even further improve it?"

From meeting is very difficult to make a right decision. Cause after a couple of days you come up with another idea, better one, but everyone is already implemented the previous idea. From that point anyone can not reach a consensus.

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 21:02**

I opened this thread with the intention of checking both this and last week's minutes to make sure I took into account all feedback for my test implementation of the email <--> account binding.

I was left with a rather nasty taste in my mouth after reading through this week's notes...

personal excerpt:

_koshi_ we've asked him more than once to add it there
he refuses and points to source
_koshi_ imo we never should've accepted that practice, but now it's pretty clear its fail

(the next is from the previous lobby meeting)

1:25:30 PM _koshi_: we do have a dedicated document for this stuff for a reason
1:25:38 PM aegis: I'm not saying this as a way to avoid updating dedicated doc
1:25:48 PM aegis: I'm saying I'll *already* be writing something of a doc so it's not a stretch.

(as in, not a stretch for me to copy it into the "official" documentation)

other excerpt:

1:24:00 PM [ARP]hoijui_irc: then we vote on it, then it can be implemented
1:24:07 PM aegis: you don't get to tell me when I can implement things
1:24:15 PM [ARP]hoijui_irc: yeah we do
1:24:17 PM aegis: nope
1:24:22 PM aegis: you can suggest how to change my implementation, and when I shouldn't push to live server
1:24:29 PM aegis: but there's no reason I shouldn't be able to work on it while it's in draft :D
1:24:40 PM [ARP]hoijui_irc: yeah ok

extra relevant commands in uberserver not in the current protocol doc:

Code: Select all

SAYBATTLEPRIVATE (think SAYBATTLE+SAYPRIVATE - receiver gets a SAIDBATTLE)
SAYBATTLEPRIVATEEX (see previous)
OPENBATTLEEX (two extra args: engine, version. acts exactly like OPENBATTLE if you specify 'spring' and the current version)

(I'm not sure how this counts as anything significant)

Extra compat flags:

Code: Select all

et: When client joins a channel, sends NOCHANNELTOPIC if the channel has no topic.
eb: Enables receiving extended battle commands, like BATTLEOPENEDEX

SpringLobby was actually the first project I approached about multiple engine/version support. The request was pushed to me from spring devs/testers to make the process easier. Initial code was done at least three years ago.

Historically (before lobby meetings), I've made it a point to approach all relevant parties multiple times (this included at minimum BrainDamage, koshi, Licho, hoijui, Satirik, bibim...) about even the smallest of backwards-incompatible lobby changes. I respond rather quickly and decisively to issues raised. I've even given a few community members a way to text me in case of emergency.

If I've seemed a little absolute in the past (before the lobby meetings, where I figured we could get a least a little maturity and cooperation from everyone), I assumed to be carrying out this responsibility: lobby lead. I don't think I've done anything particularly stupid+permanent in this time. If I have, you're also stupid if you haven't approached me about it. I have respect for the few who gave me serious constructive criticism during this time. I care. Talk to me.

I don't really appreciate immature politics.
Maybe you'd be better off swapping back to SpringLS if you don't think I'm doing it right.

smoth wrote:feels like a troll thread rather than minutes.

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 21:35**

Alright, so I've been assessing everything you said wrt protocol description wrong then, as far back as that awful meeting we had about custom properties. Which 13 months later still aren't available btw.
We're still missing a comment when/if you can/will implement the forcejoin related commands.
Re email stuff (didn't you say you were going to do that last week?), there's now a branch in protocol description for it: https://github.com/spring/LobbyProtocol/tree/email

Sorry if I am too harsh again, I'm really trying.

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 22:02**

After extensive troubleshooting I have located the issue

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 22:04**

Its just a theme for ubuntu!

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 22:08**

Even worse!

hey my arrows look like the spring logo

Also I think the fact that lobby bans have been completely nonfunctional for months is pretty indicative of the state of the infrastructure...glad to see people are at least going through the motions of maybe fixing things, even if it is just in a troll thread

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 22:12**

Peet wrote:lobby bans

I'd completely forgotten about this (nobody's mentioned it to me since September)... I think the issue happened when licho moved to Windows server... the mysql information for the lobby bans (and the web interface, though that now appears to redirect to the wiki on lobby development) stopped working.

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 22:13**

Hmm mysql should be intact but it needs different IP that could be the problem .. i moved mysql to widows host part of the machine for best performance.

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 22:17**

also found this

Code: Select all

        # /lobby isn't used any more, redirect to an up-to date page
        RewriteEngine On
        RewriteRule ^/lobby(.*)$ http://springrts.com/wiki/Lobby_Development [L,R=permanent]

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 22:25**

koshi wrote: as far back as that awful meeting we had about custom properties. Which 13 months later still aren't available btw.

Btw. rapid system is at least 2x older and its not implemented in SL yet either. And we also got a word it would be.

Posted: **20 Mar 2012, 23:21**

Here are some more: http://projects.springlobby.info/projec ... uery_id=18

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 01:06**

aegis wrote:also found this

Code: Select all

        # /lobby isn't used any more, redirect to an up-to date page
        RewriteEngine On
        RewriteRule ^/lobby(.*)$ http://springrts.com/wiki/Lobby_Development [L,R=permanent]

this was added by me because it contained a really outdated version of ProtocolDescription.xml. also it was added some time ago:

15e5622f (root 2011-12-09 06:49:06 +0100 28)

so, you can't say its really used... /lobby pointed to a folder that was last updated:
"r6577 | Auswaschbar | 2008-10-07 12:34:40 +0200 (Tue, 07 Oct 2008) | 2 lines"
+ it contained uncommited stuff... -> dead

see also http://springrts.com/mantis/bug_view_ad ... ug_id=2813

also there where no documentation about, where it is/was used.

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 16:26**

/lobby contained the ban interface :)

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 16:36**

Sorry abma I thought you were more open to the idea. Your downloader works so well for my needs I'd be happy if it had that extended ability. jk said it is theoretically possible to auto download and compile engines on the linux machine if the user is willing to wait the 15 minutes or so. That doesn't really seem so bad to me, engine downloading would be a rarity. There are other threads about this so I won't get into it, but it would really be great.

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 18:03**

@aegis:

what to do with it? did you look into the code?

imo before it can be (re)-used:
- it should be cleaned up
- documented (at least a README!)
- pushed to github

@CarRepairer:
it is possible, if:
- all depends are installed (cmake, gcc, lib*dev, git, ...)
- the users machine has enough power (>1GB RAM, >2GB free disk space)
- the user has enough time: on a fast machine, it takes 15 minutes, on a slow machine it can take up to an hour...

also, what if something fails? the prerequesites are so high, i don't like the idea.

imo a shell script would do a better job. hardcode shell commands into c++ is a bad idea...

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 18:23**

Shell script is fine with me!

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 18:57**

CarRepairer wrote:jk said it is theoretically possible to auto download and compile engines on the linux machine if the user is willing to wait the 15 minutes or so.

**dropping in without reading anything else**
avoid this at all costs! compiling stuff is not trivial at all, there are many things your small compile solutions will miss, couple of examples:
1) build dependencies - most good distros know the difference between build dependencies and runtime ones, having _every_ user download, install, and satisfy those is no fun
2) using of system libs during compiling/running of custom engines which are not made into packages prior to install: hellish experience for any rolling release distro which updates packages every week. when stuff breaks you won't know what's going on

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 19:08**

@CarRepairer:

https://gist.github.com/2150455

this script has many drawbacks:

- it doesn't check dependencies
- running shell scripts on users systems without asking him is bad style
- it doesn't self-update
- -j2 ist just a bad guess
- recompile will maybe fail
- its not tested
- ...

in short: it will fail on most systems, so please don't use it!

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 20:12**

abma wrote:what to do with it? did you look into the code?

imo before it can be (re)-used:
- it should be cleaned up
- documented (at least a README!)
- pushed to github

This has been the official ban interface for TASServer for years. It was part of the TASServer svn repository afaik, might've been moved to SpringLS github.

Lobby moderators cannot currently ban users. Leaving the interface disabled is entirely the wrong thing to do.

did you look into the code?

Have you forgotten who I am? o_O

Posted: **21 Mar 2012, 22:51**

yes, the whole TASServer history (minus the libraries) was importet into git, including the webinterface. i removed that from the git repo in december 2011. i remember someone telling me that this interface is long deprecated and unused, but it is likely i just remember that wrong.
aegis, what is your plan for that? keep the interface?
or introduce lobby commands for ban management? These could at worst be executed "manually" by moderators.

commit of the removal of the web-interface:
https://github.com/spring/SpringLS/comm ... ebd439864d

Spring RTS Engine

Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18

Re: Lobby :: Dev meeting minutes 2012.03.18