Spring RTS Engine

Hey! Me and my friend often 1v1 and I'm having trouble.

He often turtles and techs straight to T2 Kbots, at which point he pumps out stupid amounts of fat boys, coupled with Lvl1 AA kbots. He then either sits on a hill and protects himself while he builds a big bertha, or rushed 30+ fat boys at my base.

How do I kill those damned things? They're hella tough and have good range. No unit i can think of sending against them can destroy that many without significant losses.

Discuss.

Good counter:

if you are arm
-Snipers with radar support and aa + scoutspam
-Penetrators +radar +aa + scoutspam
-mobile artillery + radar + aa + scoutspam
if he makes 30 fatys you can rush a t3 lab and make vanguards with aa +scoutspam

as core you have more choices

-Sumos + radar + aa
-Mortyrs + radar + aa
-golly + radar + aa
-banisher + radar + aa
-mobile arty +radar + aa
-dominators + radar +aa

and catapults for t3 with aa + radar, you can switch the radars with scoutspam for LOS on all where it says Radar

Dont forget to keep range:) and u ate the fattys for breakfast

put enough and constant pressure on him, that he cannot tech

Thank you! I assume these counters work for Sumo as well.

Although often constant pressure is what will do it, the match that prompted me to ask this question was a little odd.

Firstly, neither of us are very good. We've had 20 odd games and are still learning the ins and outs.

anyway we were playing on a map called "The Oasis" and he built quite the fortress on this plateau that was only accessible from one way (by vehicles, which i happened to go).

so he pretty much had map control of my geo with a guardian, and i spammed tanks which did little vs his plasma barrier.

we both teched and when the fatties came out i was clueless for what to do. I had killed single ones with Zeus before, but he had 15 or so and they blew away zeus and my tanks with no problems .

This map? http://springfiles.com/spring/spring-maps/theoasis

Not sure if you noticed but on this map the F2 display lies a bit (since it is a bit bugged atm) and kbots can actually climb the cliffs at some points. Spiders can climb anywhere.

I would not worry so much about finding a counter to the fatboys but try to not let him reach the point where he can make so many of them.
If I understand correctly both of you just started playing. There is probally a lot of potential to improve in the early game. So if you get better there you will have an advantage over him the more the game progresses.

Maybe upload a replay by attaching it to forum post.
There are automatically saved in the demos\ folder.

That is the map.

I'm going to post two replays, first the one of the Oasis, and then the most recent one we've played.

If you guys want to comment on how games can be improved, please do comment for both myself (ExKGB) and my friend (Zorch713). Because if I get way better than him it stops being fun

well, it really is "extreme noobness"
At start, only make as much energy (solar/wind) as needed to run the factory. Anything more is basically wasting metal and time.
Do not walk around so long paths with commanders just to build some mexes. It means wasting his buildpower, use a conbot instead.

Later on, bad balancing of metal/energy by both players.
Hints:
-solars cost no energy to make. If you energy stall, make solars.
-reclaim rocks for metal (if you stall)
-Better to only build one big thing (geo, factory, guardian,..) at the same time. Cancel constructions if it allows to finish something else faster.
ExKGB's geo takes so long to finish because he makes a second (useless) factory at the same time.
-reclaim wrecks
-take all the metal spots you can get
-destroy all the enemy mex you can get

At very start, Zorch makes 6 lasertowers around his 3 startmexes, then more llt around the map - too many, especially so early.
Meanwhile his 5 mexes to the left are totally undefended and ExKGB could easily destroy them - one unit would be enough to destroy them! (eventually 2 mex get destroyed but late)

Basically no scouting at all.

ExKGB makes a guardian to counter Zorch's guardian but it is not even in range.
Zorch's guardian "controlls" the area around right geo but why did you not simply expand to the left geo? It was empty...

ExKGB:
For the bombers, the fusion would been a better target than the guardian. But you probally did not know enemy had a fusion because you never scouted his base
Bombing the guardian gained nothing, he reclaims the wreck and rebuilds it. Only bomb turrets if you want to attack this spot soon.

Only watched the oasis replay to 30min or so, might watch the other one later. But that might give you some ideas...
Maybe play online vs players that are better, you might loose but can learn from replay what they are doing different.

Yeah, we're pretty bad .

Like I said, I'm skeptical about working too hard to get better other than playing my friend, as I already win most of the matches. I have watched a few replays, and you need to remember we started from 0 experience and were pretty much just learning.

The second replay (on trojan hills) is much better, at least as far as I played.

Also, on average, how much energy is needed to run a factory?

It is not so much working hard, more about seeing some "standard" ways to do things. eg at gamestart nobody makes 5 llt in his base, instead the metal is spend to make units and use them destroy enemy mex/cons/energy.
But there are worse players and if I remember my first matches...

Also, on average, how much energy is needed to run a factory?

depends on what unittype you are building. Select the factory while it is building (and not stalling) and look at the tooltip. If cons are assisting, those use energy too. Don't know excact numbers but I think its around 40-50 or so.

Its true that making lots of LLT's at the beginning isn't a good idea lol.

Our game has been slowly evolving, in our first games we both sat around shooting big berthas at each others plasma shields so its been improving .

We both play other RTS's, and TA is just... different in a lot of ways.

Also, Knorke, you've been helpful all over, so thanks for being a champ

If you want to judge play, do the game on Trojan hills. The oasis one was simply why I asked what fat-boys counters were

You guys should just make a little clan so you can play together and play in some team games, or watch some you'll learn a lot faster and it's insanely fun.