Spring RTS Engine

i cleaned up the read_me_first page:

http://springrts.com/wiki/Read_Me_First

i moved some of the content to the Games + Maps page + removed ehm.. some lines: http://springrts.com/mediawiki/index.ph ... ldid=21615

I think it reflects now much better what users expect on this page. As over time Spring becomes more an engine, i think the instructions how to install a game should be on the homepage of the game. Some Games ship with an installer, some don't, some need additional files... impossible to write general instructions.

suggestions, critism?

(feel free to correct it yourself, as its a wiki...)

good effort of removing some of the fail but realisticly it is still a cluster fuck

ie "Single-Player" and "Bots / AI" (also should be one section?)

Bots are AI controlled players. There are several AI projects in development. Most of them are at a playable stage.
There are bots packed with Spring, so you should already have several AI to fight against. [...]
Not all AIs will operate with every game!

This makes it seem like there are only 1 or 2 odd games that the packed AIs do not work with. Reality is different, looking at [[games]] page:

• Zero-K - only included lua ai works, some missions
• Spring: 1944 - only included lua ai works
• Evolution RTS - don't know, does shard play it?
• Kernel Panic - included lua ai, BKPAI (not in installer)
• Conflict Terra - no working ai
• Spring Tanks - only included lua ai works
• Gundam RTS - afaik no working ai
• The Cursed - afaik no working ai (some AIs build random stuff)
• Balanced Annihilation - only tested RAI lately, works good. other AIs probally work too.
• Tech Annihilation - no AI knows how to tech up -> useless
• NOTA - no idea, maybe *a AIs like RAI can play it a bit
• XTA - only tested RAI lately, works so-so. other AIs probally work too.

So for the majority of games singleplayer does not work like this. Or does not work at all.
For singleplayer/AI skirmish list the games that support it and link to their SP section. (for example http://zero-k.info/Missions.mvc)
inb4 "look at my epic AI, it is so awesome at mod derp" - if it can not be found by looking at the page of mod derp, it does not exist!
But it would not matter anywhere because nowhere is be explained how to add a Bot in lobby X without the game ending at 0 seconds, without bot stuck in corner and all that. Not even adding startboxes is trivial but not really explained anywhere. The "there are many AI projects blablabla" is technically interessting for some but super frustrating for players.
All that is why single player is a newbtrap. It should not be so prominent on a "read this first" page like this.

You can also start a game by starting the Spring engine ("Test Spring" in starmenu or "spring" in commandline)

You not really "start a game" this way, its more testing if spring runs without crashing.

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http://springrts.com/mediawiki/index.ph ... ldid=21692
you removed the link to the "installing maps page" and replaced it with own text.
Imo that is not good. (it also does not mention archivemover or automatic downloads but that is not the problem)
Now every games page must write its own text about folders, archive mover, lobby downloads and all that.
There needs to be ONE wiki page [[where_files_go]] and then everybody can link to this one page.

As over time Spring becomes more an engine, i think the instructions how to install a game should be on the homepage of the game. Some Games ship with an installer, some don't, some need additional files... impossible to write general instructions.

I see what you mean but look at this:

First of, Spring is not portable enough so the "each game has its own installer and its completly seperate" does not work. But even if this was to change at some point:

on http://springrts.com/wiki/Spring_Tanks#Get_the_game I would rather link to a page that explains installing maps,rapid,folders etc then explaining it all over again.
Also
http://code.google.com/p/conflictterra/ ... a_using_zk,
and
http://www.evolutionrts.info/download/
etc
How many more badly done "how to update your game", "how to install maps" pages/texts do we need?

Only games with installers are:
zeroK
Gundam RTS
kernel panic
Spring1944
Don't know which ones currently work but only zeroK ones seems to be popular due to the zeroK lobby.
All other games, including the most popular one, are installed like this:
http://spring-portal.com/index.php/docm ... lation-v71
a .sdz file + a one liner that says "needs engine to be installed"
(the game file is then usually downloaded via lobby)
Also there all those "uprising" games like
Micron Wars that will probally be distributed as forum thread + .sdz for a long time, yet are imo an important part of spring...
Can not except each creator of such a game to rewrite install instructions and explain rapid all over again.

so "general instructions" for single player - no. let each game explain its AIs/mission/chicken/launcher/SPmenu
"general instructions" on installing .sdz maps and maps - yes.
"general instructions" on lobby, engine (graphic settings etc) - yes.
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I think it reflects now much better what users expect on this page.

What is a user? Player? Game maker? Potential game maker? Many pages try to suite all but that does not work.
http://springrts.com/wiki/Hosting_Spring is another example."I just wanted to know how to open a battle so I could play with my friends without connection problems and wats this"

neat i am like sinbadev or something

knorke wrote:The Cursed - afaik no working ai (some AIs build random stuff)

knorke wrote:Only games with installers are:
zeroK
Gundam RTS
kernel panic
Spring1944

Just some minor corrections here:
Shard performs good with The Cursed - You just need to put the definition files into the right place or use the "The Cursed - Full installer" that can be found here: http://www.indiedb.com/games/the-cursed ... ller-v-111

you should maybe fix this then
http://azaremoth.supremedesign.org/index.php

For single player games youÔÇÖll need to choose either of the skirmish AIs (ÔÇ£Shard AIÔÇØ or ÔÇ£AAIÔÇØ) or the survival mode

(AAI did not play very good: only building solars+mex, lots of factories but very few units)

That is basically what I mean: contradicting information in different places. Of course can happen by overseeing things but with how the wiki works at the moment, it happens all the time.

Where can i get the shard definition files for Cursed?

knorke wrote:Where can i get the shard definition files for Cursed?

https://github.com/Tarendai/Shard/tree/ ... e%20Cursed

forb was getting owned by AI, it could be shard, but better ask him

knorke wrote:you should maybe fix this then

You are damn right - done.

AAI does a bad job - that is right. Shard performs much better. Everything it builds too much is caused by the config files and there is still much room to improve them.

As far as the Shard config files are concerned - they need to be placed in a subdirectory in Shard called "ai\tc". Placing the files under "ai\the cursed" doesn't work (for me).

What I was trying to say is that SP is much more complicated to get going for new players then the wiki makes them believe

Wombat wrote:forb was getting owned by AI, it could be shard, but better ask him

Depends on what video. The survival mode AI is just a simple derivative of the chickens AI. Some of the older ones feature me getting pounded by shard.

mmmm forb getting pounded hard by Shard... Tasty

ya it was some team game. i have to admit its probably the most challenging AI.

thats not the point.
point is if you go to the evolution rts page it does not tell you how to start a single player ai, be it skirmish or chicken. (at least i did not find it, only looked briefly)

So players will try to play like it is explained on read_me_first:

You can also start a game by starting the Spring engine ("Test Spring" in starmenu or "spring" in commandline):

Then select a game, map and AI and click "Test the Game"

How likely will that provide fun with evoRTS?

ÔÇóEvolution RTS - don't know, does shard play it?

personally, i was just commenting what u said.

@knorke, soonly, when starting via spring.exe, you will be faced with normal survival AI. Atm it's disabled because autohosts are fucking stupid and don't pay attention to shit.