Spring RTS Engine

Since giving users an engine without games is pointless but *A cannot be included due to copyright concerns I think Kernel Panic may be a good base package to include with the engine. It's free software, fairly small (without the music at least and I wouldn't put the music into the main Spring installer), easy to learn and outfitted with extensive singleplayer and training features. There are free maps for it too so it'd be a complete install-and-go package using only a few additional megabytes. Updates seem to have slowed down so I don't think there'd be an issue with outdated versions (especially since Zw also maintains a full installer). Of course it wouldn't be the only thing a new user wants but it'd give him something to work with and convince him that Spring is not just a convoluted mess.

I don't see why we don't just put BA on there. Nobody is coming after us.

The problem with giving an engine a default game, is that it makes newcomers think or feel that that default game is what the Engine is all about. When I think of Valve, I think of Half Life, when I think of Activision I think Call of Duty, Bungie, Halo, etc.

Instead, give the user a nice selection screen like the SD game screen featuring a range of games and mods, if not all.

We've really got to make the difference between Engine and games distinct.

I personally don't agree with the idea of a flagship or default game, but KP is probably the best option overall.

Jazcash wrote:The problem with giving an engine a default game, is that it makes newcomers think or feel that that default game is what the Engine is all about. When I think of Valve, I think of Half Life, when I think of Activision I think Call of Duty, Bungie, Halo, etc.

Instead, give the user a nice selection screen like the SD game screen featuring a range of games and mods, if not all.

We've really got to make the difference between Engine and games distinct.

Yeah, just give new users a checklist of mods that they can get, along with the option to download a pack of the most popular maps. (dsd, tab, ccr, ssb, etc)

Kernel panic is the closest thing we have to a full blown game right now in terms of completeness, it's only problem is it lacks a mini website plastered in shiny pictures and videos ( moddb profile doesn't count ).

BA etc aren't options because even if Atari isn't gunning for us, we've all been left out intentionally from lots of reviews, distributions, and free game lists.

Atari doesn't need their legals department to hurt us

I would say we need to be careful that we reinforce the message that spring is nit kernel panic, if we don't we run the risk of that association coming up and hurting bit projects. I have a solution in mind that will help alleviate this kind of issue, Ill make another thread if anything comes of it

If kernel panic is used as the flagship though, I think we should distribute spring as is and then present Zs kernel panic installer. We shouldn't wrest control from him over his installer

This thread is moot. Use SpringDownloader as Jazcash already stated. It gets maps, mods and widgets and installs them for you. The user doesn't have to do a single thing other than run it. The user can launch and host a game without even having the mod or map, SD does the rest.

Spring can even drop its pre-packaged widgets.

AF wrote: it's only problem is it lacks a mini website plastered in shiny pictures and videos ( moddb profile doesn't count ).

Coming very very soon.

AF wrote:it's only problem is it lacks a mini website plastered in shiny pictures and videos ( moddb profile doesn't count ).

Why? It's a shiny website plastered in shiny pictures and videos!

http://www.moddb.com/games/kernel-panic/

I am for this.

CarRepairer wrote:This thread is moot...

Re: Convoluted mess.

kernal panic.. are you serious?

It's like Darwinia graphics

Would chose NOTA or Star Wars over KP any day

I dont think I have ever seen a game of it with players...

Either way a flagship game seems like a bad idea, I am in favour of SD being used despite its annoyances.

CaptainPoo wrote:kernal panic.. are you serious?

It's like Darwinia graphics

Would chose NOTA or Star Wars over KP any day

NOTA graphics?

Imperial Winter hasn't been released yet, so it isn't an option.

Flagship is bad, like Jaz said it makes people associate. KP, regardless of what its gameplay is, is the simplest and ugliest Spring game, and probably uses the least engine features. Not the first impression you want people to get. Not to mention, it's never played. I haven't seen an active KP game in over a year. People will download it and just see the solid black with colored lines and instantly form a bad impression. It's just not what you want.


No flagship, just an installer with a checklist and shiny pictures.

Hobo Joe wrote:probably uses the least engine features

Engine features are deprecated, these days it's all about the Lua! And let me tell you that KP does use its fair share of Lua.

CaptainPoo wrote:Would chose Star Wars over KP any day

We can't put in the installer a mod that hasn't been released yet! And when the Spring Star war mod gets released, in 2072, it will look as dated as KP.

Hobo Joe wrote:Not to mention, it's never played. I haven't seen an active KP game in over a year.

You know, Spring community is dwarfed by the starcraft one. Maybe it's time we eventually stop this comedy and eventually just put SC2 in the installer. Not to mention, you must not log very often and not have a very good eyesight to not see KP games.

I'm completely against a default game, but if I had to chose, I'd pick CA straight away. It's fast approaching OTA-Freeness and is the fastest evolving game for Spring out right now. Imo, it's also the prettiest and uses a hell of a lot more engine features than most other games.

But again, Spring shouldn't be known for a particular game, Spring should just be remember as an Engine. When people say "I'm going to play Spring", they mean they're going to go play a game or two on the Spring Engine.

Jazcash wrote: I'd pick CA straight away. It's fast approaching OTA-Freeness

And has been for 3 years.

KDR_11k wrote:Of course it wouldn't be the only thing a new user wants but it'd give him something to work with and convince him that Spring is not just a convoluted mess.

Wouldn't this be dishonest?

I think it'd be kind of odd to make the "spring engine" package include a game...makes more sense to me to distribute game packages that include the engine and install it if it's not already installed. But then it would be silly to distribute those on the download page for the engine site so we'd run into the whole rebranding crap AF was going on about.

as long as i like KP and its piece of great game i dont think it represent spring (and in the end other games) properly. /me votes for spring defence and dsd

I'm behind the SD game buffet, here. No one particular game defines spring.

If we wanted to make a flagship game, I think it should be an 'example' game with polished, well-documented units, scripts, and samples of code provided by the community.