Spring RTS Engine

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 15:09**

I understand that alot of you think sync errors are fake, that they only happen on certain maps or servers and that they are meaningless. You were all trolled by others, and you all fell for it. there is no way that all sync errors are fake, and no reason you should continue playing a synced out game. I have tested this on multiple PCS at the same time , so people please, realize that syncs are real and just restart the damn game.

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 16:07**

Wait, people seriously try to continue playing past sync errors? (NOT the delayed sync response ones) Yeah, that's really stupid.

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 16:32**

It might be stupid, but yes, now a large part of sync errors do not have any effect for anyone in the game.

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 16:43**

In the past week or so, more than half of the sync errors are fake. I've played about 5-6 1v1's in the past 3 days and most of them got sync errors on certain hosts or my own host. No desync of any kind actually happened in the game.

Agreed, not all sync errors are fake but recently, more often than not, the sync errors are actually fake.

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 17:16**

its trees/water fault, if map got no trees or water and u get desync error, u are surely desynced, otherwise mass desync is spring admins conspiracy against us !

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 17:40**

Most sync errors are inconsequential at this point, which rather defeats the purpose. Yes, some result in real desync on the scale we recall from earlier versions, but not terribly many. I'd wager that Wombat may be right to some extent, it often relates to map features.

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 23:04**

Even If only 5% of Sync Errors are "Real" then I for one still find that margin unacceptble for gameplay. We should restart the game whenever the sync errors occur.

If it is truely map specific, then those maps should be repaired or removed from usage.

If it is a a autohost issue, those autohosts should be removed.

I find it much more likely that weve all been trolled on this issue to an extent. Perhaps sync errors are less common now adays, but they are still existant.

I played 3 games yesterday with players out of sync. Nobody will listen to me when I say that that sync errors are real. They were all "winning" and even after they failed to "end the game" THEY PLAYED ANOTHER SYNCED OUT GAME. Over 8 People were out of sync.

If your driving your car and the check engine light comes on, do you dismiss it as fake? Would you drive a vehicle with a 5% chance of breaking down?

This all or nothing mentallity is seriously dangerous thinking. You cannot put faith in something "mostly being fake" . I sincerely hope that you guys dont live your lives with this attitude, but if you do, send me your credit card numbers. Theres only a 5% chance ill use them.

I dont care whats posted on pastebin. I have seen the sync errors with my own eyes in multiple conditions and I tell you that you have been mislead.

-------------------
Before Posting harrasssing "sefidel is an idiot" replies, do some experimenting of your own.

Posted: **02 Jan 2010, 23:22**

Hey Sefidel, I have a great business idea for you. Hold a lottery where the player has a 95% chance of getting 10x their money back. Those suckers!

As to the errors, have movetypes changed, what mods are you seeing it in? And we can make better tools to see how much things are really changing between game states.

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 01:06**

A map with fake sync errors:

LLTAComplex

I've played this map dozens of times in current build of Spring, BA, and have never NOT had a sync error while playing it. Seriously, I've not played one single game on this map without seeing multiple users experiencing sync issues. It's gotten to the point where each time I play this map, I tell everyone "You will start to see sync errors. They are fake. Ignore them. It happens every time you play the map."

And you know what? Nothing happens. Everyone plays. No one sees anything fake or out of sync. It's as if the sync errors have no effect on the game whatsoever. I had a 1+ hour noob porcfest on this map a while ago, and still no issues at the end. Everyone was seeing a synced game, not a fake one.

To Sefidel: try it out. Play a full game on LLTAComplex, and see if you find any errors at the end. Think of it as a little challenge.

Are the "fake" errors bad? Of course. It's unprofessional, it confuses noobs, and gets people who don't know any better to restart games for no reason, only to find more errors on the next try.

Not sure about trees, but I know LLTAComplex has some little scrub brush things and some rocks scattered about the map.

Maybe some people are too stupid to realize the difference between real and fake desyncs, but some of us mentioning "fake" desyncs know what we're talking about. To be honest, I've only seen a couple desyncs in the current version of Spring, and they were always from a single user, who we kicked.

Sefidel wrote:If your driving your car and the check engine light comes on, do you dismiss it as fake? Would you drive a vehicle with a 5% chance of breaking down?

/Yes. I work on my own cars and know enough to ignore check engine lights when my engine is running fine.
//My dad has been driving a 1989 Dodge Dakota with 289,000 miles on it with a constant check engine warning for the past 8 years. The bulb finally burned out.
///People who know which maps have "fake" desyncs are much like me and my dad. Error? Oh, I can ignore that...

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 02:04**

LLTA is an old old map, it's probably some random crap in the smd causing the errors, but not actually affecting gameplay.

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 02:16**

i get fake sync errors on Small Supreme Battlefield V2 in NOTA
not on other maps that i've played with the same players and configurations

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 02:27**

Random thought: do the sync errors go away after wiping out the path cache?

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 02:28**

This discussion seems misleading. Are the errors really "fake" or simply "inconsequential"?

The difference? Well, if I destroy a feature and the event isn't synced then we have a real desync - BUT - unless somebody tries to reclaim or shoot through the feature the impact on game events is inconsequential and won't create any noticeable changes in the games outcome.

The engine problem analogy assumes a problem with the wiring, however it is also possible the engine does have an issue but it is below the threshold that would cause failure. Either way you can still drive.

I'm not saying sync errors aren't a problem, just that automatically restarting games when the seriousness of the problem is unknown isn't always a good solution either. The decision to restart needs to be made with respect to the players involved and how progressed the game is.

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 02:29**

interesting idea, i'll test it out.. could be paths from a previous version?

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 04:16**

I am simply saying that not all sync errors are map specific, i agree that some maps do have that issue, but they should not be played then. But i am talking about real sync issues, and the problem is that people assume that since some maps have it, that all sync errors are fake. We all know that sync errors can happen, but the community can no longer distinguish between real and fake due to misinformation.

As a guideline, if half of the players in yoru game are out of sync, there is something wrong. If you are winnning far to easily, or run into commanders who dont dgun you, then you have a real sync error.

Even if the enemy seems responsive often times those responses are moments old. by the end of the game you can tell, if you pay attention to normal gameplay times.

additionally its obvious if your ally is out of sync, but in FFA its hard to tell. Additionally in FFA people get stuck in an "im winning" mentality.

All I am asking is that when you see sync errors you restart. Sure some maps have it, but for example, i play llta complex all the time and i never get nor see errors on that map. The issueis far more complex than being simply map based.

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 17:00**

Im personally a big fan of sync errors. Those are the only games I win.

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 17:13**

Funniest was when it is obviously clear that its real unsync but enemy refuse to believe it

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 17:29**

I refuse to believe that a game where i have 20 advanced fusions and my enemy has 20 advanced solars is fake. Only a crazy person would chose to believe that. Oh wait, this is a sefidel thread. He hates winning....

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 20:37**

Semi-topical anecdote:

I remember this one time I was playing Descent 2, and due to some kind of awesome sync bug only two people could actually see me, everyone else could only see my messages and score. They'd explode when I killed them too. I still wound up in last place because everyone would just start shooting randomly and ganging up on the invisible guy...

Posted: **03 Jan 2010, 22:29**

These false desyncs have been so common that many players think it's always a fake error at certain maps. Now it is in the point where players get banned for votestopping a game where almost every player is desynced.

[05:53] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[PWN]Muppet> guess gioform is desynced
[05:53] <[TERA]AutoHost> <giovform> sorry im kind lost :)
[05:54] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[USSR]Nukes> Troll sighted
[05:54] ** Dark_Soul poistuit pelist├ñ peli( ).
[05:54] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[USSR]Nukes> FIRING MUTE CANNON, DIRECT HIT!
[05:54] <[TERA]AutoHost> <giovform> yeah. out of sync
[05:55] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[USSR]Nukes> Bspt and pako\
[05:55] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[USSR]Nukes> hope to god you can salvage you'reselves
[05:58] <[TERA]AutoHost> <giovform> yeah, out
[06:02] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[USSR]Nukes> rofl
[06:02] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[USSR]Nukes> you're air screen is of t1 and scouts
[06:02] ** giovform poistuit pelist├ñ peli( ).
[06:05] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[fi]pakolainen> this game is too desynced
[06:05] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[fi]pakolainen> !stop
[06:05] * [TERA]AutoHost * [fi]pakolainen called a vote for command "stop" [!vote y, !vote n, !vote b]
[06:05] * [TERA]AutoHost * 10 users allowed to vote.
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[USSR]Nukes> agreed
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <chemfy> !vote 1
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Vote in progress: "stop" [y:2/6, n:0/6] (40s remaining)
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <mahe> !vote 1
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Vote in progress: "stop" [y:3/6, n:0/6] (40s remaining)
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[PWN]Muppet> !vote 2
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Vote in progress: "stop" [y:3/6, n:1/6] (35s remaining)
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> !vote n
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Vote in progress: "stop" [y:3/6, n:2/6] (31s remaining)
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Away vote mode for ctf4void,capob,[noob]bspit,BillPaxton,[USSR]Nukes
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Vote in progress: "stop" [y:3/4(6), n:2/3(6)] (25s remaining)
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Awaiting following vote(s): joki777 (and 5 away-mode vote(s))
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> !ring
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Ringing remaining voter(s): joki777 (by [SPACEINVADERS]Mecha)
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> vote n
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> !ring
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * There is no one to ring (ring spam protection for joki777)
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> guys
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> vote 2
[06:06] <[fi]pakolainen> everyone vote y
[06:06] <[TERA]AutoHost> <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> !ring
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Ringing remaining voter(s): joki777 (by [SPACEINVADERS]Mecha)
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Vote for command "stop" passed (delay expired, away vote mode activated for joki777).
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Stopping server (by [fi]pakolainen)
[06:06] * [TERA]AutoHost * Server stopped (running time: 32 minutes and 58 seconds)
[06:06] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> ahhhh
[06:06] <ctf4void> lol we didnt lose
[06:06] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> pako
[06:06] ** pelox poistuit pelist├ñ peli( ).
[06:06] <BillPaxton> what happened? lag?
[06:06] <[noob]bspit> otay
[06:07] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> you will be baned from every autohost under my control
[06:07] <[PWN]Muppet> that map often says desynced and ppl often arent
[06:07] <[fi]pakolainen> most of players were desynced
[06:07] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> doesn't matter
[06:07] ** [USSR]Nukes poistuit pelist├ñ peli( ).
[06:07] <joki777> wtf
[06:07] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> you manipulated it
[06:07] <chemfy> mecha you werent even doing anything, you were afk
[06:07] <[fi]pakolainen> nah
[06:07] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> no I wasn't
[06:07] <mahe> Mecha - your mexes was unused
[06:07] <chemfy> You didn't even have any mexes
[06:07] <joki777> i destroy player who don't play ...he just make plane
[06:07] <ctf4void> 2 players were out of sync during the 1st minute
[06:07] <mahe> you was desynced probably
[06:08] <BillPaxton> yeah synch issues
[06:08] <[fi]pakolainen> u can play signelplayer with ur self
[06:08] <ctf4void> that game was fucked up by desync
[06:08] <BillPaxton> i saw one guy had 20 bombers sitting on the ground
[06:08] <joki777> me too..lol
[06:08] <capob> why was it unsynched?
[06:08] <BillPaxton> yeah
[06:08] <joki777> i destory all with two unit
[06:08] <[PWN]Muppet> yeah he was desynced or just "simple in the head" wasnt quite sure which for a while
[06:09] <capob> heh, in my came and went and killed all enemy commanders with scouts
[06:10] <joki777> should we
[06:10] <joki777> !ring
[06:10] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> we are not playing this map
[06:11] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> !votemap deltasiegedry.smf
[06:11] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> we don't want another unsynced issue
[06:11] <capob> why not this map
[06:11] <BillPaxton> !vote y
[06:11] <[PWN]Muppet> !vote 2
[06:11] <chemfy> !vote 1
[06:11] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> because it causes desync
[06:11] <joki777> !vote 2
[06:11] <[PWN]Muppet> well pick a different map
[06:11] <[PWN]Muppet> be original
[06:11] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> and people see different things
[06:11] <capob> mecha, how do you know it is the map?
[06:11] <TheGroper> !vote n
[06:11] * [TERA]AutoHost * Vote for command "set map DeltaSiegeDry.smf" failed.
[06:11] <joki777> but no DSD it's boring
[06:11] <BillPaxton> this map is a time warp with alternate universes
[06:11] <BillPaxton> thats why that happens
[06:11] <[PWN]Muppet> i would rather a desynced game than dsd
[06:11] <capob> I see, they built it into the map
[06:11] <joki777> change
[06:12] <TheGroper> joki if you want dsd gtfo
[06:12] <[SPACEINVADERS]Mecha> !votemap Tabula
[06:12] <BillPaxton> in my universe i won and i married angelina jolie
[06:12] <TheGroper> !vote n
[06:12] <joki777> i don't want fucker
[06:12] <arnack> lol bill
[06:12] <capob> bill, how strange. Quite similar to mine
[06:12] <BillPaxton> stay away from my wife!

yeah, I got banned from some servers for votestopping that game

Spring RTS Engine

SYNC ERRORS ARE REAL

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