Journier wrote:it was not a common practice to take slaves from another race and contient, and america is still the only country to have ever done it in that dimension.
It wasnt? this is truelly news to me good sir, since noone in the world started banning slavery till the 1820's and the french were even later.
i explicitly stated that slavery was not exclusive to north america, but that it had taken it to a whole new level. you are just contradicting the part of my sentence i said was wrong.
Im pretty sure this relates to your failure to understand the timeline the discussion came from which was The founding fathers and how you thuoght that since they had slaves anything they did didnt matter.
This time period we are talking about would be in the area of 1770 on till 1780's, not the 1830's and on as you seem to be indicating.
how the hell did you twist and turn my argument in your head to come to the conclusion that i was talking about the 1830s?
Once again your mistake.
once again? this is the first argument your post is referring to. you can't even fucking count. to one.
all developed cultures had some form of aristocracy, but there was a concept of being responsible for ones serfs. In America, slaves where deliberately imported and classified as subhumans, so you could do with them as you pleased.
Why are you even talking about Serf's in this time period?
Serfs were used through the 1300's and on and most serfdom's were gone by the 1700's. Russia still had serfs till 1860's though. so i guess your sorta on the level.
did you just look up serf on wikipedia? the point of my argument was, even the caste system in india - while being horribly injust and inhuman - had a concept of being responsivle for the wellbeing of ones underlings. yes, there inherent value differences between social groups, but the higher ones had religious and humanitarian imperatives to keep the lower ones satisfied. in america, this was explicitly denied.
the argument for the somewhat socially councious americans whas: well i tought them christianity, so they have a chance to go to heaven. all cruelty i have done upon them is nullified by this.
they were assholes to the extreme.
but did you know the Serfs in Russia were originally Slaves? the Russians freed the Slaves, to become Serfs. Still about as low as you can get in a culture.
you are pretty fucking stupid, i'll give you that. my entire point was that other countries had at least some ethics and morality in dealing with slaves, while america had none.
Slavery was still thriving in those countries though.
how often do you want to repeat this? i explicitly stated that every developed nation had the concept of posession of humans, but that america had been particularly and extremely dehumanizing in this.
To your point, All slaves had very few rights, your saying the same thing twice.
thats the goddamn pot calling the kettle black.
And your are bypassing the issue that America was not the only Country that had slaves, Slavery was part of every nations economy nearly in the Mediterranean at the time. Islamic nations had a very large slavery market "that took people from other nations", and sold them along the Mediterranean. The slave trade was very big on the Mediterranean till the 1800's.
again? seriously, you're saying the same thing
again? that's like the fourth time, and it's still not even recognizing my original argument.
what the fuck do you mean, come on? this is bullshit, and you know it. yeah some indians died, but so did a fuckton of europeans to the pest.
Uh right, just "some" Indians died.
It wasnt like 80 or 90% of the population of the New World died off from Old World diseases, that the Europeans had built up a resistance to.
the figure of 80 to 90% is ridiculous, even reactionary papers list it as only existing in particularly intense sections of infection. my example of the black plague holds, it certainly killed 80 to 90% of the population in heavily effected areas. yet still, europeans survived.
No not at all. We only killed "some" of them with disease. The rest we butchered.
good argument.
it is, actually.
Yea I agree with you there buddy, America is a single nation with a single people, no minorities, or culture that divides it, and we have no towns that have a history of strong cultural ties with there home nation, such as germany, towns like Frankfort, I live near. where the original town was made up of 90% of German Settlers, and the grave stones on some of the earliest grave markers were in German. that must be my imagination.
Nope we are all 1 nation of 1 people, no culture.
i never said america had only one culture. i said the founding fathers were racist, genocidal, imperialist assholes. i never said anything about the current america, except that it should fucking stop idealizing its past.
you are such an asshole it hurts. just because one continent was slower to discover technology it means the people there are worth less?
Never said that, stop making a straw man argument.
what? you said:
Oh good one, yea people taking slaves in Africa totally ruined it for future generations in Africa. HA HA HA HA. Africa never had its shit together once, and I dont believe it will as a whole ever and thats with one of the most rich continents on earth.
so if killing and enslaving and abusing people who 'didn't have their shit together' is ok, then those people must be worth less. except if you have a really fucking stupid system of ethics. which i would't put beyond you.
and of course you'll find tribes there who were willing to betray others - you can find people like you anywhere. does that make it okay that england made huge amounts of people addicted to opium? after all, the guys smoked it themselves!
1)Once again straw man arguement.
strawman argument means, that i extrapolate a position i think you might have, and then counter that one, instead of the one you presented. you clearly said that africa 'didn't have it's shit together' and so diserved to be perversely exploited. i therefore correctly inferred that you are a complete asshole. no strawman there, dude.
2) I dont sell my own people from my own country into slavery.
i never said anything about current americans, i was talking about the founding fathers. you see, what you did there is an
actual strawman.
3) Im not arguing that fact about Opium....
4) would you stay on topic?
the point was pretty clear, you pedantic fuckwit. just because they found african tribes that were willing to sell out others isn't a reason that the enslaving of the other was in any way legitimate. but that's what you said.
anwering in an analogy isn't straying from the topic. how can you not understand this?
another straw man argument but ill ride with it.
now i am absolutely convinced that you actually have no idea what a strawman argument is.
Yea, Europeans made a Paradise of cities and taxes in the United States, hell across the New World, thats why we revolted, and started a revolution, thats why Europe has nearly no control over any part of the New World anymore.
Everyone just wanted your rich cities. Not like the Europeans were overtaxing the colonies or anything.
what the fuck does taxation of one imperialistic shitstain of a nation upon its colonies have to do with anything?
i'm saying the founding fathers of america were assholes and shouldn't be idolized. i guess i should have said, them and poeple like you should be ignored because they represent the general suck of the human race.
the European nations never created anything in the new world, what they did do was after the Settlers had got everything running real good made good trading deals with the colonies that would exchange manufactured goods for raw goods.
The same thing they did in India, had the indians create Raw Materials, ship it off to England, then ship it back to the indians to buy as a finished good. This was done with all nations.
i'm not saying life as an american settler was easy. so what, life as an ausschwitz prison guard was tough too, so is a life as a scientologist. i don't five a fuck, though, because the way they live fucks other people over. so fuckem!
And im now done with you and this thread, feel free to continue, i think its derailed enough as it is.
The discussion was on California getting its wellfare dropped a (socialist idea)
yeah, shitstain, run the fuck away. or better, come back, and say 'strawman' a couple more times. hey, you could even through in an occasional 'slippery slope' or some other fucking fallacy you read about somewhere.
you'll still always be a racist, patriotic douchebag that i'd like to beat with a shovel.
