Spring RTS Engine

When a player is FPSing a unit, that unit should be given slightly more speed, damage, and range while the person is in it...

Not enough to make it abuseable, but enough to make the FPSing system worth using as a strategy...

Already players are at a slight disadvantage when using it, because they can't aim as well as the automatic and perfect aiming of the computer...

There should be better controls and a better GUI while FPSing units, for example when you're flying an air unit, it's hard to tell where the unit is facing...

There should be an indicator while in air units that points to where the crosshair of the unit is, to help you better direct the craft.

Units should be given special functions that can only be used while in FPS mode, E.G. an afterburner for certain air units that gives them a short quick boost that can help in turning, or escaping during raids...

You should be able to give commands to other units while in FPS mode (this might already be possible, I havn't checked :c)...

If you have any other ideas on how to improve and integrate FPS mode more into the game as a useful feature, feel free to post them!

I know this is an RTS, and not and FPS, but why can't it be both?

Anyone here remember the games like Battlezone/Battlezone 2?...

You could also intergrate an option to allow players to play on someone's team, but they're only allowed to FPS units, while the commander gives orders etc!

That could be an interesting new coop mode!

Edit:

Another idea is to have an option to have a specific unit be the commander of a group, and when that specific unit is FPSed... all the units in that group fire and attack exactly where you attack, and only attack when you attack!

Also, an option to control your unit as an FPS, but have a third person view could be nice...

The FPS mode is just a pointless gimmick anyway that does nothing useful.

KDR_11k wrote:The FPS mode is just a pointless gimmick anyway that does nothing useful.

This is spam, and this shows that you've neglected to read my thread...

Don't spam in my thread please...

i agree, FPS as it is, is just a gimmick,

but it COULD be awesome if it worked nicely.

a mix of battlefield and rts style game.

but don't give advantages to FPS units.
units need Reverse and bots need sidestepping ability but i understand this is going to be difficult.

controls need to be a lot more intuitive
for bots:
eg. UP should always move you forward in the direction you're facing
DOWN should make you move backwards
LEFT and RIGHT = sidestep

for vehicles:
UP = accelerate
DOWN = brake/reverse
LEFT and RIGHT = steer/turn on spot for tanks

the FPS camera is very jumpy while moving.

just noticed when you alt tab out and back in you cannot control you FPSed unit until you un FPS and then FPS it again

IMO you should be able to see your unit's model when you're in it...
perhaps a chase camera would be better than FPS?

hud needs work, the targeting stuff is confusing.

you don't need to make weapons and stuff more powerful, but a lock on for aiming would be good.

Chad wrote:

KDR_11k wrote:The FPS mode is just a pointless gimmick anyway that does nothing useful.

This is spam, and this shows that you've neglected to read my thread...

Don't spam in my thread please...

No it isn't spam, it's a refutation of the reasoning behind this thread. While I'm a big fan of FPS mode, I have to agree with KDR: it's a gimmick and has very limited usefulness in a real game. There have been some FPS-only mods (CommShooter, Combat Lords, some weird game where you controlled mobile Retaliators), but beyond that, there isn't really a point to using it in another game unless you're on a commsharing team and one person manages the base while another leads an army into battle from a Krogoth just for fun.

The unit you were controlling used to be displayed on the directional arrow; this has apparently been cut a while back. I don't know why, but I strongly support bringing it back. Especially for aircraft.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of FPS mode: why are there suddenly random textured faces appearing in front of the camera? Isn't the unit supposed to be invisible to you?

As to the rest: please, don't improve FPSing units. A Krogoth is bad enough without it getting a bloody damage/speed boost when FPSed.

Chad wrote:When a player is FPSing a unit, that unit should be given slightly more speed, damage, and range while the person is in it...

Could brake mod balance.

Not enough to make it abuseable, but enough to make the FPSing system worth using as a strategy...

It is already abuseable: you can use it to shoot over range.

Chad wrote:

KDR_11k wrote:The FPS mode is just a pointless gimmick anyway that does nothing useful.

This is spam, and this shows that you've neglected to read my thread...

Don't spam in my thread please...

Seems like youve neglected to read replies to your other thread. Also, youve neglected to use the search function, as this topic has been discussed a hundred times before, and has reached obvious conclusions.

FPS mode will most likely not be changed for current mods. If you want to implement it in your own mod, or make a mutator for a current mod that allows this behavior, then by all mean, go forth and code! We are interested in seeing the results.

SirMaverick wrote:It is already abuseable: you can use it to shoot over range.

To support this: Back when WD was not yet lost in the mists of time, I used to play SP in that /send mode whatchamacallit just to muck about. I soon found I could use the ADATS (Air Defense Anti-Tank System, name says it all) in FPS mode, aim high, and outrange any artillery by half..... Yes there are methods of preventing this, which many mods use (AA missiles going wonky at max range and flying off into the sunset, unguided rockets dropping like a stone, forcibly limited ballistic cannon range), but you only really need one weapon which doesn't and you've got your across-the-map artillery.

Come to think of it, I have used FPS mode in actual games on occasion, when units got stuck in their factories or rough terrain, or to use AoE to destroy units just outside max range or behind terrain. IMO that's useful enough.

Strategia wrote:

Chad wrote:

KDR_11k wrote:The FPS mode is just a pointless gimmick anyway that does nothing useful.

This is spam, and this shows that you've neglected to read my thread...

Don't spam in my thread please...

No it isn't spam, it's a refutation of the reasoning behind this thread. While I'm a big fan of FPS mode, I have to agree with KDR: it's a gimmick and has very limited usefulness in a real game. There have been some FPS-only mods (CommShooter, Combat Lords, some weird game where you controlled mobile Retaliators), but beyond that, there isn't really a point to using it in another game unless you're on a commsharing team and one person manages the base while another leads an army into battle from a Krogoth just for fun.

The unit you were controlling used to be displayed on the directional arrow; this has apparently been cut a while back. I don't know why, but I strongly support bringing it back. Especially for aircraft.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of FPS mode: why are there suddenly random textured faces appearing in front of the camera? Isn't the unit supposed to be invisible to you?

As to the rest: please, don't improve FPSing units. A Krogoth is bad enough without it getting a bloody damage/speed boost when FPSed.

" it's a gimmick and has very limited usefulness in a real game. "

This thread is about how to improve it, so that it is useful to the game...

That's like you going to a thread about something that's broken, and how it needs to be fixed/updated, and then posting that it's broken...

Not only is that spamming, it's showing that you failed to read, or understand the purpose of the thread itself.

----

"As to the rest: please, don't improve FPSing units. A Krogoth is bad enough without it getting a bloody damage/speed boost when FPSed."

Just because you don't think some of my specific ideas aren't good, doesn't mean FPSing units shouldn't be improved...

I've never actually played any of these games myself, so my ideas might not be the best choices of ways to improve FPSing units; they're only examples of possible ideas, and should be used to spark other new, or better ideas, or other ways of implementing useful updates.

If you don't like an idea, post your own idea, or a way that you think would make it acceptable.

---

Beherith wrote:Seems like youve neglected to read replies to your other thread. Also, youve neglected to use the search function, as this topic has been discussed a hundred times before, and has reached obvious conclusions.

I read the replies on my other thread.

I didn't use the search function, because although I'm sure this topic has been discussed before, I wanted to have a chance to post my own topic, and put my own spin/ideas on it.

Chad wrote:This thread is about how to improve it, so that it is useful to the game...

That's like you going to a thread about something that's broken, and how it needs to be fixed/updated, and then posting that it's broken...

Not only is that spamming, it's showing that you failed to read, or understand the purpose of the thread itself.

Just because you don't think some of my specific ideas aren't good, doesn't mean FPSing units shouldn't be improved...

I've read and understood the thread, it's just that I disagree with the basic premise. FPS mode doesn't need to be made useful in-game. It's a fun little extra option, but there doesn't need to be more to it than that. FPSing should only be important in mods specifically designed for it.

If you don't like an idea, post your own idea, or a way that you think would make it acceptable.

It's not that I don't like the idea per s├®, it's just that I feel there's no need for it. I'm not spamming your thread, I'm trying to argue with you - imagine if you suggested painting your cat purple, and your mother says it's a bad idea, and why do it in the first place?, and your reply would be something along the lines of "if you don't like purple, then we can use yellow or blue, if you don't like it then go to the neighbours and talk to them about their cat". I'm arguing with the concept of the idea, not the idea itself, your reply assumes I'm arguing about the contents - it's a fallacy.

Strategia wrote:

Chad wrote:This thread is about how to improve it, so that it is useful to the game...

That's like you going to a thread about something that's broken, and how it needs to be fixed/updated, and then posting that it's broken...

Not only is that spamming, it's showing that you failed to read, or understand the purpose of the thread itself.

Just because you don't think some of my specific ideas aren't good, doesn't mean FPSing units shouldn't be improved...

I've read and understood the thread, it's just that I disagree with the basic premise. FPS mode doesn't need to be made useful in-game. It's a fun little extra option, but there doesn't need to be more to it than that. FPSing should only be important in mods specifically designed for it.

If you don't like an idea, post your own idea, or a way that you think would make it acceptable.

It's not that I don't like the idea per s├®, it's just that I feel there's no need for it. I'm not spamming your thread, I'm trying to argue with you - imagine if you suggested painting your cat purple, and your mother says it's a bad idea, and why do it in the first place?, and your reply would be something along the lines of "if you don't like purple, then we can use yellow or blue, if you don't like it then go to the neighbours and talk to them about their cat". I'm arguing with the concept of the idea, not the idea itself, your reply assumes I'm arguing about the contents - it's a fallacy.

This is a thread for people that want to discuss, and request improvements to be added to the FPS part of the game... if you post things in this thread that aren't contributing to the development of ideas, then you're spamming in my thread.

Imagine- you go to a thread discussing possible updates to the UI of the game, and you post "Updating the UI is a stupid idea!"...

The person that created the thread, and the people that are contributing to the thread obviously already disagree with you, because they obviously think that the UI needs updating.

You already know what the outcome is going to be, and yet you still post your spam just to provoke a reaction.

This thread isn't a discussion about "Should there be an update to the FPS system?" it's a discussion about updates to the FPS system- the question of there should be an update or not is irrelevant; this thread is for people who want to update the FPS system- the fact that you don't want that to happen is irrelevant to the purpose of this thread!

By posting your off-topic arguments, you're spamming my thread with useless, irrelevant information; you're wasting not only my time, but the time of everyone else who actually wants to contribute to this thread.

Think of a topic, any topic. It's been posted before.

And yes, the FPS feature is pretty gimmicky but it's nice to know it's there and it's another feature we can use to flog Spring to French muffins.

If it felt like an actual FPS game it would be at lot more welcomed.

They are not spaming the thread they are posting discussion. Spam would be repetitious posting with little to no actual content. despite how you may feel they are posting content.

Please, the fps feature since it's inclusion into spring has been a gimmick feature that was added for fun. Not really something that was meant to really be a big part of the engine. It cause many issues with players being able to exploit it and fire projectiles well beyond(see entire map) the range of the weapon.

Now don't get me wrong, I think it is a fun option but not something that has to be integral to the engine(spring is not a game). In fact some of the changes you are requesting would break or imbalance several other games that use this engine. So your request effects more than just you.

Either way, this thread so far has been discussion and people have been discussing it with you. Please respect others with the same respect you wish to be given.

JAZCASH wrote:Think of a topic, any topic. It's been posted before.
If it felt like an actual FPS game it would be at lot more welcomed.

Yes, yes, that is what I'm leading towards, updates to make it more useful, and to feel like an actual FPS game!

smoth wrote:They are not spaming the thread they are posting discussion. Spam would be repetitious posting with little to no actual content. despite how you may feel they are posting content.

Please, the fps feature since it's inclusion into spring has been a gimmick feature that was added for fun. Not really something that was meant to really be a big part of the engine. It cause many issues with players being able to exploit it and fire projectiles well beyond(see entire map) the range of the weapon.

Now don't get me wrong, I think it is a fun option but not something that has to be integral to the engine(spring is not a game). In fact some of the changes you are requesting would break or imbalance several other games that use this engine. So your request effects more than just you.

Either way, this thread so far has been discussion and people have been discussing it with you. Please respect others with the same respect you wish to be given.

Going by what you say... I guess I wouldn't be spamming if I just chose a random development/request thread here, and then started discussing how my cat just gave birth to three beautiful kittens!

If you discuss things that the thread wasn't made to discuss, you're posting off topic information, E.G. spamming.

if you started discussing your cat in an unrelated thread that would be derailing the thread with a side discussion. Not spam.

Ok, now listen carefully: if you have a feature idea, especially one, that as you have seen from the responses here is controversial. Then I suggest you stop arguing about the semantics of spamming, and trying to ward off anyone who doesnt say 'omg you are right 100%', and get some real progress done, like code a lua gadget that allows the strafing and reversing.
Keep in mind that being new to this forum and arrogantly shoving off coments made by devs as spam will get you nowhere.

Offtopic isn't spam.
Discussing problems of FPS mode that you haven't suggested improvements for isn't offtopic.

Chad wrote:

JAZCASH wrote:Think of a topic, any topic. It's been posted before.
If it felt like an actual FPS game it would be at lot more welcomed.

Yes, yes, that is what I'm leading towards, updates to make it more useful, and to feel like an actual FPS game!

I was being a bit sarcastic. This is an RTS engine, not an FPS engine. It is designed for RTS gameplay. FPS gameplay is simply a small feature to make some people happy.

Sure a better FPS system would be nice. But I'm really not expecting FPS gameplay quality of any sort. Just possibly some smoother movement, better weapon changing and some decent reticles would be nice.

I suggest you go play an FPS game.

If you want my input: Don't touch FPSing engine-wise, in fact strip the damn thing out for all I care. All it does is fuck with games and potentially allow exploits. If someone really wants to make it part of his mod he'd be better off reimplementing it anyway. Those who don't explicitly put it into their mod probably didn't intend for it to be used anyway. If the engine altered the game physics for FPSed units that would break mods that didn't expect it to happen. Since engine-wide stat bonuses should NEVER be added to the FPS mode any boosts you want to give should be done with mod lua so this doesn't belong into Feature Requests.

SirMaverick wrote:

Not enough to make it abuseable, but enough to make the FPSing system worth using as a strategy...

It is already abuseable: you can use it to shoot over range.

And the engine is loaded with tons of hacks to prevent that which tend to backfire and hurt non-BA mods.

Chad: I know you made this thread with the intended purpose of discussing improvements to the FPS system. However, this implies that there should be improvements to the FPS system. I'm arguing against that. Therefore, your argument about my posts being spam is, as I pointed out before, a fallacy; hence my example about painting the cat purple.