Spring RTS Engine

1v1 peewee vs ak (unmicroed) pw wins and still has like 50% of HP O_o reduce dmg plz, maybe switch back to the old fx for the sake of balance?

agreed, ive specced several games in which pw simply dominates ak in 1v1, or in a group. reduce pw movement speed 5% and reduce dps 5-10%

Sheekel wrote:agreed, ive specced several games in which pw simply dominates ak in 1v1, or in a group. reduce pw movement speed 5% and reduce dps 5-10%

well the movement never was the problem, the point is that pw and ak shouldnt be even. pw was also better in an unmicroed 1v1 its just that atm its WAAAAY better.

the thing is that pw was buffed again and again :/
1) raising hands was removed
2) new fx made it deal dmg much faster, i know nor tested it and according to him dps was the same but it in rl i cant see how it can be.

we could make it raise hands again but im not sure it would solve the problem. the ak would win 1 maybe 2 shoots before pw starts the pwnage.

=> 1. reduce dmg
or
2. reduce speed of the projectiles

As i recall the AK was superior because it moved a little faster and thus was able to stay out of range of the PW while still firing its laser...this was the case before iirc

TheMightyOne wrote:

Sheekel wrote:agreed, ive specced several games in which pw simply dominates ak in 1v1, or in a group. reduce pw movement speed 5% and reduce dps 5-10%

well the movement never was the problem, the point is that pw and ak shouldnt be even. pw was also better in an unmicroed 1v1 its just that atm its WAAAAY better.

the thing is that pw was buffed again and again :/
1) raising hands was removed
2) new fx made it deal dmg much faster, i know nor tested it and according to him dps was the same but it in rl i cant see how it can be.

we could make it raise hands again but im not sure it would solve the problem. the ak would win 1 maybe 2 shoots before pw starts the pwnage.

=> 1. reduce dmg
or
2. reduce speed of the projectiles

wasnt it you that wanted to kill the raising hand of my cute pws?^^

Im dead against ak outrunning pw (at least by any significant margin). In a decent skill 1v1 you can still murder pw with aks with minimal losses.

Does anybody feel flash is much more powerful than gator? The relationship is pretty similar to ak vs pw, and I have not personally felt there to be a problem with either.

I do feel that gator and ak are more effective vs com. I mean, it is obviously a bit of crude brute force to approach a dgun with raiders, but the little bit of extra range/accuracy really help.

On very small maps, I think core dominate in the early game simply because of aks, and their ability to intercept pw. We have had op aks in the past, and if they are made to dominate pw much more than they already do, I think the 1v1/small map game will really suffer.

pintle wrote:Im dead against ak outrunning pw (at least by any significant margin).

no, pw still should be faster, i dont want to change that my any means

pintle wrote: In a decent skill 1v1 you can still murder pw with aks with minimal losses.

you have to micro like hell and even then you'll prolly lose, unless its a 2v1 ak has almost no chances.

pintle wrote: Does anybody feel flash is much more powerful than gator? The relationship is pretty similar to ak vs pw, and I have not personally felt there to be a problem with either.

i did >_>

I do feel that gator and ak are more effective vs com. I mean, it is obviously a bit of crude brute force to approach a dgun with raiders, but the little bit of extra range/accuracy really help.

u forgot about the time it take to kill a com, few pws or flashes can easily compete with pyros here

On very small maps, I think core dominate in the early game simply because of aks, and their ability to intercept pw. We have had op aks in the past, and if they are made to dominate pw much more than they already do, I think the 1v1/small map game will really suffer.

its the other way around, really. just try it and you'll see. its not like it happens in 1 out of 10 games.

its because the ak got lolnerfed repeatedly

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:its because the ak got lolnerfed repeatedly

i think it was necessary

manolo_ wrote:

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:its because the ak got lolnerfed repeatedly

i think it was necessary

Now it's time to lolnerf repeatedly the pw for great justice.
Meet you in the 9.72 release.

AK should be faster than pw, outrange it, have more hp, more dps, and be cheaper!

pintle wrote:AK should be faster than pw, outrange it, have more hp, more dps, and be cheaper!

no, PW just need to be balanced.

pintle wrote:AK should be faster than pw, outrange it, have more hp, more dps, and be cheaper!

TROLL ALERT!

Touche.

I'm yet to be convinced pw is op, but I have not played much decent skill 1v1 in a while:P

lets play moar 1v1s on pydah and see what the deal is, post replays if necessary.

srsly, buff the ak slightly.

I agree with TMO on this peewee op-thingie.
However, peewee and AK shouldnt be the same. I have no problems with one being stronger then the other. The role of peewee should be killing buildings and slow moving targets. This is what makes ARM the 'raiding' side in TA.
Core has allways been the 'slower' side in TA. This can be reflected in the role of AK as the slowest of the T1 raiding Kbots, but being able to defend better against ARM raids.


What about increasing AKs range with 5% and decrease peewees with 5%?
The pw would still have the insane dps against buildings, and ak would be a good counter to them. This will have little effect in unmicroed fights, its up to the Core player to manage the bigest group of AKs he can.

Or else id sudgest to reduce pw damage with 5-10% (but dont change its speed imo)


ps. FaerieWithBoots == FlorisXIV

Too new to XTA so voice about the pewee/AK balance, but I like this philosophy, that arm is the raider and core the sumo.

FaerieWithBoots wrote:I agree with TMO on this peewee op-thingie.
However, peewee and AK shouldnt be the same. I have no problems with one being stronger then the other. The role of peewee should be killing buildings and slow moving targets. This is what makes ARM the 'raiding' side in TA.
Core has allways been the 'slower' side in TA. This can be reflected in the role of AK as the slowest of the T1 raiding Kbots, but being able to defend better against ARM raids.


What about increasing AKs range with 5% and decrease peewees with 5%?
The pw would still have the insane dps against buildings, and ak would be a good counter to them. This will have little effect in unmicroed fights, its up to the Core player to manage the bigest group of AKs he can.

Or else id sudgest to reduce pw damage with 5-10% (but dont change its speed imo)


ps. FaerieWithBoots == FlorisXIV

there is no need to invent some new formulas, we had a good balance !!! untill the new fx was introduced, now i dont want to blame noruas, the new fx does look cool, but it shouldnt have affected the balance. just look how it was before the fx and apply the same to now

TheMightyOne wrote:

there is no need to invent some new formulas, we had a good balance !!! untill the new fx was introduced, now i dont want to blame noruas, the new fx does look cool, but it shouldnt have affected the balance. just look how it was before the fx and apply the same to now

When i have my computer working again i will install an old spring version and play some XTA 8.x

ty for hearing our prayers noruas but unfortunately you overdid it imho pws are a joke now, maybe it was the opponent i was playing agaist and it was like they did not deal any dmg at all. they should suck at big range but its really like they almost no deal all dmg at all. maybe pick a value in between what we had and what we have now?


p.s. i cant emphasize often enough how important testing is before a new release (or was there a testphase and ive just missed it?)