Spring RTS Engine

Simply what the topic says. The ability for mods to override map gravity.

+1, this would be nice.

Ballistic weapons have myGravity tag already.

What else do you need custom gravity for? Exploding shards?

Mappers should be permitted to provide the maps they want to. You can already mess with the contents of your mod or game to change the effects of gravity.

zwzsg wrote:Ballistic weapons have myGravity tag already.

What else do you need custom gravity for? Exploding shards?

Not for units, if a mod uses lots of impulse weapons the map maker basically gets to decide how powerful they are.

neddiedrow wrote:Mappers should be permitted to provide the maps they want to. You can already mess with the contents of your mod or game to change the effects of gravity.

If a map doesn't work with a mod because of the settings wouldn't it be nice if the mod could do something to make the map work?

If a map doesn't work with a mod because of the settings wouldn't it be nice if the mod could do something to make the map work?

Exactly.

lolwow

It would be a nice feature to have.

Sorry.

Yeah it would be a great feature!

http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Lua_UnitDefs


UnitDefs[216]["moveType"] = 0,
UnitDefs[216]["myGravity"] = 0.40000000596046,
UnitDefs[216]["name"] = "corcom",

That tag only comes into play if the Unit is falling. It can be overridden by some other stuff.

I don't feel like arguing about it, it's a single map setting, it should be changeable on the fly, just like all the other map settings (like, IDK, lights and stuff).

it would be neat if the tag was applied in engine.

Is it possible to do this yet? I've been hearing things about mapoptions.

smoth wrote:http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Lua_UnitDefs


UnitDefs[216]["moveType"] = 0,
UnitDefs[216]["myGravity"] = 0.40000000596046,
UnitDefs[216]["name"] = "corcom",

Used by planes only AFAIK. It's necessary if you make the plane so slow that Spring decides it shouldn't get any lift.

Google_Frog wrote:

neddiedrow wrote:Mappers should be permitted to provide the maps they want to. You can already mess with the contents of your mod or game to change the effects of gravity.

If a map doesn't work with a mod because of the settings wouldn't it be nice if the mod could do something to make the map work?

No no no and no. This is a fallacious argument. Remember last time when I requested you to name maps that are "broken" cause of bad wind values? And noone named a single one?

Please name me some decent maps that are unplayable in your selected mod because of gravity values.

Previously it was requested to allow mods to ignore typemaps as well, yet there arent any maps that you dont play specifically because it has a "bad" typemap.

You already hinted at mex normalization. So one by one, in your great wisdom, you have decided to remove each and every tool a mapmaker can use to mix up a flat balance.

Playing on different maps that have different attributes and reward some specific strategies more than others is part of the game.

The analogy I would like to offer here is: Remember how the community got their panties in a bunch over a map that was a mod; Basically its the same thing, maps shouldnt touch mods, and I dont agree with mods touching maps either.

edit: removed stupid stuff

Beherith wrote:Previously it was requested to allow mods to ignore typemaps as well, yet there arent any maps that you dont play specifically because it has a "bad" typemap.

Azure Rampart versus CA's terraform

Beherith wrote:Previously it was requested to allow mods to ignore typemaps as well, yet there arent any maps that you dont play specifically because it has a "bad" typemap.

Centerrock's typemaps prevent all-terrain units from going past walls when they should be allowed (while the opposite faction has jumpjets which can cross these walls, breaking balance).

Ok, on the hardness bit, I agree, that can break it. (With typemap I meant unitspeeds)

Centerrock: Its the way the map was meant to be played, one faction has an advantage; the world in not an all balanced flat CCR map.

Any examples for gravity or wind?

Beherith wrote: broken
unplayable

"Broken" and "unplayable" are pretty blatant red herrings tbh, just because a problem isn't game-breaking doesn't mean it isn't a problem. A map can be playable, even good, while having problematic or suboptimal values in certain areas.

As for maps with broken wind, that wasn't quite what the question in the other thread was asking, but I'll give two examples:

• Tundra, the map which started the wind override thing to begin with. 9-9 wind, obviously meant to support use of wind, but locked out in CA due to being always less efficient than solar. Sure, we could've rebalanced our energy econ just for this one map, but do you honestly think that's desirable?
• Charlie in the Hills v1. Off-the-charts wind, with (IIRC) 1 BA windgen producing more minimum E than 1 BA solar. Obviously it would be desirable to change this in any wind-using mod.

The analogy I would like to offer here is: Remember how the community got their panties in a bunch over a map that was a mod; Basically its the same thing, maps shouldnt touch mods, and I dont agree with mods touching maps either.

DSD Special wasn't attacked primarily because it was a mapmod, it was attacked because it wasn't clearly marked as such. Duck and Speedball have been mapmods for years with no official complaints - lots of insults about their quality, but no complaints.

As for maps and mods touching, SpeedMetal and Green_Fields have been completely changing mods using nothing but the values available to them for years now.

You already hinted at mex normalization. So one by one, in your great wisdom, you have decided to remove each and every tool a mapmaker can use to mix up a flat balance. Playing on different maps that have different attributes and reward some specific strategies more than others is part of the game.

For certain aspects like gravity, metal distribution and maybe typemaps, this statement is valid on the face of it. However, do you think "never make wind" or "never make anything but wind" constitutes rewarding specific strategies?

Anyway, map topography and metal distribution remain the defining gameplay-controlling elements of a map, and I don't think anyone is ever going to suggest putting those under mod control.


One more thing:

Its the way the map was meant to be played, one faction has an advantage

CenterRock was around before CA had jumpjets so this is moot, but: one faction having a significant advantage on a map is disastrously bad balance.

KingRaptor wrote:Anyway, map topography and metal distribution remain the defining gameplay-controlling elements of a map, and I don't think anyone is ever going to suggest putting those under mod control.

This has been suggested.