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Brawler reinterpretation (Retouched! Remastered!)

Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 20:09
by MidKnight
:mrgreen:

650 triangles - 400 polies with optimization thanks, Hoi :-)

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when attacking

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when traveling


Update!
got tons of things done. the feedback on betta helped very much with improving my skills! thanks everyone! :mrgreen:

now to the pics:
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A little... eh, miscalculation in upspring caused this. :-)



Brawler photoshoot :P
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front!
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side!
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back!

UPDATE:
Normals fixed, reflection map retouched:
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Cool, no? yes? maybe?
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Don't worry, I made sure that it won't turn into a dazzling sun and kill your eyes with bloom on. :P


source attached.

Everything is free to use as long as you credit me :-)

Also: would somebody please do me a favor and modify the CA banshee's script (and add the gatling gun anims) so that this can go ingame? Many thanks in advance! :P

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 21:12
by Argh
...and the guns go... where, exactly, when it's traveling? I mean... they aren't turning and folding in, they'd have to do stuff that's physically impossible ;)

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 21:46
by det
Very nice model

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 21:54
by Hoi
Much better than your other model :wink: still need some work, especially the smoothing groups.

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 22:09
by KaiserJ
i agree with hoi... you are learning fast and this looks good! almost reminds me of a dragonfly (the insect, not the unit)

just a suggestion as far as the behavior and animation goes... instead of hiding the guns fully while in "fly" mode, pull them back into the carapace of the model so that you can still see the tips of them (just opinion, i feel that would be a bit more realistic... hide the guns while not in use so that they avoid damage and dont create drag during flight); and as well, those bulbous areas on the tailfin could turn 90 degrees to the rear while in fly mode to indicate that their thrust is used for speed; and conversely in hover/attack mode, turn them so that they face the ground to indicate a hovering / vtol type behavior.

must be a decent model if i can look at it and think all that! 8)

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 22:11
by Hoi
Mind upping the obj?

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 01:08
by Licho
Yeah looks nice and interesting!

Just minor remarks:
- how would such beast hover? Perhaps give it some front end jets too?
- the slot with guns and retractable guns look impractical - how will they retract?

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 04:31
by MidKnight
my internet is iffy today.

The guns telescope (restact) and fold behind wings into rods. rods rotate 90 degrees to become secondary thrusters :-)

More stuff uploaded :)

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 06:13
by Das Bruce
I know this is scifi and all but torque balance issues are hard to ignore when they're that agrivated.

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 09:44
by imbaczek
yah it needs a set of thrusters on the tips of gun beams or whatever they're called.

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 10:08
by KDR_11k
Watch your hard edges. You've got them where they don't belong, giving it a very polygonal look.

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 15:22
by Hoi
I looked at it and saw alot of waste, and other bad stuff, fixed (most) of your modeling errors, check it out and learn from it:)
brawler.zip
improved the brawler.
(22.96 KiB) Downloaded 28 times

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 15:42
by MidKnight
Thanks for the comments! :-)
@baczek, bruce, kaiserj: when the guns retract, they become thrusters. the entire reason I implemented that was so it wouldn't tip over (plus pwnage animation :wink: ). also, during transit the wings provide lift (even though this is a gunship). When attacking, the plane needs to tip forward, so the balancing actually helps it. :P

@KDR: please, elaborate! :-)

I haven't had a chance to look at hoi's obj yet, will comment on that later.

EDIT: Also, from earlier:
those bulbous areas on the tailfin could turn 90 degrees to the rear while in fly mode to indicate that their thrust is used for speed; and conversely in hover/attack mode, turn them so that they face the ground to indicate a hovering / vtol type behavior.
Why do you think i put wings (which only provide lift when traveling) on a gunship? Expect to see it when someone does the COB :wink:


EDITEDIT: Looked at hoi's model. Nice! You cut 200 polies off of it! now i can use those to subdivide the engine polies... :P

I wish there was an easier way to view models ingame (like /luarules reload for gadgets)
poly counts added :-)


EDITEDITEDIT:what the moo is preshading? Smoothing groups?

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 16:45
by KDR_11k
Preshading means painting some lighting on your texture instead of praying that the engine will always light it well.

Hard edges are about smoothing groups (the groups term is pretty archaic since I think almost every software uses an edge-based approach nowadays).

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 17:02
by MidKnight
Thanks, KDR! Could you also plz tell me how to do what hoi says here? :-)
Hoi wrote:still need some work, especially the smoothing groups.

Re: Brawler reinterpretation

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 18:32
by Hoi
MidKnight wrote:Thanks, KDR! Could you also plz tell me how to do what hoi says here? :-)
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=61087

That explains the basics, I think.

http://feeblemind.tuxfamily.org/dotclea ... g-problems

(a bit more advanced, you should read that too.)

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 19 Jan 2009, 19:46
by Saktoth
I was trying to be kind in chat but if you want to get this in game, there are a few gripes.

Jaggy, mussed up polygons on the engines, it looks like you were trying to model the flame onto it rather than make an air intake. Same mussed up, jaggy polygons on the nose and tail. Far too front-heavy- it would fall straight out of the sky while trying to hover. The design itself is very front-to-back, side-to-side, right angles. The main chassis section runs uniform in thickness over most of the body, like little more than a kinked cylinder with pointy ends. The wings are a non-aerodynamic, pointy shape, like a pair of bent triangles. The guns poking out through the wings- who would design a plane like that? It will also make it very difficult for the gunship to aim. The holders for the guns are just lumpy blobby deals, again, sticking out from the centre at right angles like glued on sausages.

On a general design-for-CA note, Gunships shouldnt have very pronounced wings, to clearly differentiate them from fixed-wing aircraft (Read the Graphical Design Doc under Gunships).

Finally, if you'd have checked the Models section of the CA site, you'd see i was working on a brawler before you even started this.

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(Note this is WIP and still needs work- wings might be slightly too pronounced here, engines need more work, etc).

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 03:31
by MidKnight
Saktoth wrote:I was trying to be kind in chat but if you want to get this in game, there are a few gripes.
I would like to take this opportunity to address your gripes, :-)
Jaggy, mussed up polygons on the engines, it looks like you were trying to model the flame onto it rather than make an air intake. Same mussed up, jaggy polygons on the nose and tail. Far too front-heavy- it would fall straight out of the sky while trying to hover. The design itself is very front-to-back, side-to-side, right angles.
please, elaborate. what do you mean by mussed up? I've been experimenting with subdividing and merging engine polies for a cleaner, smoother look. :P
The main chassis section runs uniform in thickness over most of the body, like little more than a kinked cylinder with pointy ends.
good point, I'll work on that. :-)
The wings are a non-aerodynamic, pointy shape, like a pair of bent triangles.
The OTA brawler has pointy, non-aerodynamic wings :wink:
The guns poking out through the wings- who would design a plane like that? It will also make it very difficult for the gunship to aim.
The wings protect the guns and add uniqueness to the unit. the gunship aims by turning its engines. the weight of the front makes it dip and keep even. then it fires :P .
The holders for the guns are just lumpy blobby deals, again, sticking out from the centre at right angles like glued on sausages.
They have to be like that, otherwise they can't do their animations. I actually think that i did a good job making them not look like cylinders.
On a general design-for-CA note, Gunships shouldnt have very pronounced wings, to clearly differentiate them from fixed-wing aircraft (Read the Graphical Design Doc under Gunships).
Noted, the reason the wings are there are to protect the guns, provide lift when moving forward in planets with material atmospheres (the engines tilt 90 degrees), and because the OTA brawler has wings.
Finally, if you'd have checked the Models section of the CA site, you'd see i was working on a brawler before you even started this.

Image
(Note this is WIP and still needs work- wings might be slightly too pronounced here, engines need more work, etc).
My bad, I'd checked before, but I hadn't checked the attachments.

Also, if I may, critiquing your model:
First of all, I like the way you made thrusters a big part of your model, but how do the middle thrusters turn? They look immobile to me. Also, he back thrusters need some work (I know you're working on them, but still :P ). Also, the part of the fuselage that connects the back thrusters to the rest of the model looks very chunky and cut-out imo, maybe spice it up a bit? I agree with you that the wings are a bad idea, but make sure to make the lost size up, so players who have never seen a brawler could see one flying in and say, instinctively, that it is more powerful than as banshee (before, not after, the brawler rips up their base :wink: ). Also, I think you should include weapons as a bigger part of your model, I've noticed that on many of your models the weapons look like a bit of an afterthought (The models themselves are beautiful though :P ).

Also: I'm working on cutting out/adding polies for a better look, using hoi's obj as a basis. It's not ready to post yet tho.

AlsoAlso:Anyone know if it's possible to make faces with more than 4 corners?

AlsoAlsoAlso:My next model will be in core kbot territory, just a heads-up :-)

And that's it!

EDIT:does smoothing get carried on into spring? If so, then how do I do that?

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 04:20
by Saktoth
please, elaborate. what do you mean by mussed up? I've been experimenting with subdividing and merging engine polies for a cleaner, smoother look.
Try manipulating the polies by hand, point at a time. What you have is a clashing mess, the polygons all falling on top of eachother like a poorly arranged stack of wood.
The OTA brawler has pointy, non-aerodynamic wings
Precisely whats wrong with it! Its 10 years old and we want to depart from OTA for a reason.
the gunship aims by turning its engines. the weight of the front makes it dip and keep even. then it fires
We should try and ensure that our new models weapons actually point in the direction they are firing, eh?
They have to be like that, otherwise they can't do their animations. I actually think that i did a good job making them not look like cylinders.
No, they dont. They dont look like cylinders- they look like weird lumpy sausages.
Noted, the reason the wings are there are to protect the guns, provide lift when moving forward in planets with material atmospheres (the engines tilt 90 degrees), and because the OTA brawler has wings.
All awful reasons, especially the last one. OTA didnt have a seperate gunship lab, and didnt differentiate its gunships and planes visually, we should avoid copying 10 year old designs.
First of all, I like the way you made thrusters a big part of your model, but how do the middle thrusters turn? They look immobile to me.
Just fine, thanks.
so players who have never seen a brawler could see one flying in and say, instinctively, that it is more powerful than as banshee
Look at it! Its huge! i dont think they'll have this problem.
Also, I think you should include weapons as a bigger part of your model.
They're not even modeled, yet, they'll be on the underside, and probably properly turreted and belt fed ala the warrior.

Re: Brawler reinterpretation (ingame now)

Posted: 20 Jan 2009, 04:37
by smoth
christfuck, that is a lot of quotes, it is like a smoth/argh brawl with both of us hopped up on redbull.


*EDITS*

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REDBULL!

*/EDIT*