Spring RTS Engine

Things you should do as a noob:

1. Declare you are a new player:

In bigger games, you might need to repeat the point several times until someone responds to you, but you should say something like 'I am a new player'.

2. Expect to be bitched at:

As a new player, you should be willing to absorb a certain amount of player-based flak, they will no doubt mock you, call you names or generally piss all over you until you learn your flash from your buzzsaw.

3. Provide support:

So you're new, this means that you are basically 'that guy' when it comes to people who are going to get bitched at for doing something wrong. DO NOT FRET. Most of the time people will bitch at you in a message, but provide you with an alternate strategy that will aid them. For instance:

"STOP ECONNING NOOB" means: "Can you produce some offensive units?"
"ARE YOU AFRAID OF SUBS?!" means: "Reclaim that depthcharge launcher, this is a non-ship map"
"F***ING ADVANCE" means: "Move your forces from where you are towards where the enemy are/ help repel an enemy assault/ the front line"
"NOOB" frequently means: "Stop building that advanced vehicle/kbot/air lab and either send units/resources/prayers to the front line"
"TARD" means that: "You are building a unit that is useless, reclaim it and build something more appropriate to this situation".

4. LISTEN TO THE OTHER PLAYERS:

Frequently, I have been teamed with a noob who has 'DA MASTAR PLAN', which usually means tech-ing up (Building a tech 2 facility without resources to do it), then building a nuclear missile silo (Without the resources to do it) and then expecting everyone else to cover them while they waste 50 minutes building a nuclear missle. DO NOT BE THAT PERSON. If you are teamed with people who seem to know what they are doing, ask them to suggest a particular strategy or suggest that you can feed a frontline player resources while they expand. DO NOT EXPECT PEOPLE TO DO YOUR BIDDING. Frequently the guy yelling 'GIVE ME ENERGY(or E) on the front line actually needs E-energy, and should be given whatever you have spare (H brings up the player list and a resource bar, select the player and then select the resources you want to share by moving the bar and hitting ok). While the backfield (Typically, the player furthest away from the action) player screams 'GIVE ME METAL' while he attempts to build a Vulcan. This leads on to...

5. Don't build noob structures:

Attempting to build a noob structure typically shows how stupid a player is, a short list of high-end noob structures is this:

An:

Advanced fusion (Thanks for building a super-high explosive in the middle of your base)
A Fusion-Moho Metal maker-fusion pile (Thanks for making some super-low health point explosive structures next to a high value target)
A shield near fusions (Basically, a shield protects against plasma (Bertha-Guardian-popup, etc) but not against some bombers. It also explodes, like a penetrator (Arm blue lazer death machine))
A Krogoth (Thanks for spending nearly an hour building a unit that one commander can destroy in less than a second).
A teir three lab (10 grand of metal for nothing).
A Buzzsaw/Vulcan (Every player in Spring should vow that if a player outside of a metal map decides to build this hunk of useless shite that they should be banned from every proper battle until they realise that they're stupid for building it).

Now I don't discount that some of these structures are useful when you are pouring fire on an enemy, but when you are losing, these structures typically paint a big red target on yourself with a sign that says 'SHOOT ME HERE PLEASE'

6. WATCH THE MINI-MAP/ALLIES CHAT

For some games, I have repeatedly relayed that the front will not hold unless someone sends useful units to the front to hold off the enemy, I have frequently seen players continue to build 'econ' while the entire front (And in several cases, the entire game) crumble while I could only watch as they strolled up with no fear as they raped every idiot who thought they're team was best served by going for tech 2 with no energy/metal to back them up.

IF A PLAYER IS ECONNING, YOU MUST PRODUCE OFFENSIVE UNITS.

In a 7v7 situation, at best, you want 2 people econning, anything more weakens the front line and allows the enemy to build up a sufficent force to break through whatever defenses the front line players have erected. As a special DSD note:

IF THE BASIN AS 4 ENEMY COLORS AND 3 FRIENDLY COLORS, YOU HAVE TO BACK UP THE FRIENDLYS.

Frequently I have found myself fighting off four enemy colors while 4 players twirled their fingers and econned. Also I found that once my line broke, they would all start producing units to defend THEIR OWN BASES. This is NOT GOOD TEAMWORK. Spring past a 1v1 is about teamwork, if you fail to realise this go back to quake, because you aren't helpful to anyone.

If a front line player starts to fall, you HELP THAT PERSON, you do not CONTINUE TO TECH UP WHILE THEIR LINE DISINTERGRATES.

That is all for now.

Advanced fusions are great (assuming your economy has already escalated to that point) if you have enough free space to place it somewhere where it wont blow up your base if destroyed.

If you dont build shields near fusions because if you did the enemy could still use bombers, he will use Plasma cannons instead :)

Krogoths only die after ten seconds if you are stupid enough to send it winhout support (what an absurd amount of people do)... a radar vehicle following it would change everthing... of course is still a bad idea to try to make one before, lets say, 2 hours of gameplay :)

Some tech 3 units are usefull... the vanguard for example, you wont get better mobile arti for arm.

You forgot to state thats a BA guide, altough in most part it works for similar mods.

Other than that... nice guide :)

The problem with your last point is the fact that Warc has designed BA for themselves, which is 1v1 play. Teamplay in BA suffers as a result.

Teach your players that looking out for themselves is the only way to stay alive, and that's what they'll do. Teach your players that they have to use teamwork to win and that is what they'll do.

Atm BA is heavily weighted towards looking out for one's self, and that's the way that warc wanted it. TBH many of these things you bring up are as much a problem with the mod in teamplay terms as with the noob.

I agree with your points but sometimes noob situations are forced or needed. For instance if the game runs into the 45 minute zone, it's time to start reclaiming old labs and eco and start advancing porc wise.

Porcing is a win tactic if you can do it well, if you're new never porc unless you're helpful by sharing eco and T2 cons.

3 replies are enough to bother a response with:

So, here we go:

Yes, advanced fusions CAN be a valuable resource unit, but unless you've invested in a fighter screen and a plasma shield around it. (Throw a jammer on that and hide it is better), the risks of having a super-high-explosive unit outweigh the risk of it blowing.

When I mentioned shields next to fusions, I meant NEXT to, as in within afew mm's of the shield. But as a note, shields go like this:

ENEMY -------YOUR SHIELD-- FUSIONS.

Obviously in larger maps you want to make afew more shields so they kind of surround your fusion stack from multiple directions, but the idea is the same.

MOHO-FUSION-MOHO stacks.

NO NO NO. If you build several mohos DIRECTLY NEXT to a fusion, everyone is going to target that location. My personal preference is to SPREAD IT OUT, leaving a space big enough to build a fusion in between anything like that.

Tier three units are the bane, if you see one on your side, you've either fucked something up or you've won. People tend to think of them as 'WIN ALL' units but the same people are also the last person you want in control of a high-powered unit. They don't macro it, they just lose it. That said, a well macro'd t3 unit can mess that stuff up, but that's true of most well-macro'd units.

And I do agree Jaz, porc'ing when t1 units aren't working is appropriate, however, allow me to point out where porc'ing isn't or is appropriate:

Situation 1:

There are 4 players, there are two players at the front and they are well porc'ed, even if the enemy pound on them, you have plenty of time to t2 up. (And give them a t2 con as well, you greedy resource bastard).

Is this the correct time to porc: YES.

Situation 2:

There are 4 players, the front guys have folded, all that stands between you and a hoard of blood-thirsty enemies is three llt's and a dt line.

Is this the correct time to porc? No. And kill yourself.

And there, this is a BA guide, although most points lend themselves toward any mod.

"The problem with your last point is the fact that Warc has designed BA for themselves, which is 1v1 play. Teamplay in BA suffers as a result.

Teach your players that looking out for themselves is the only way to stay alive, and that's what they'll do. Teach your players that they have to use teamwork to win and that is what they'll do.

Atm BA is heavily weighted towards looking out for one's self, and that's the way that warc wanted it. TBH many of these things you bring up are as much a problem with the mod in teamplay terms as with the noob."

so you're saying that because of the way we made BA a 4v4 game is essentially 4 1v1's wrapped in one? :DDD

Day wrote: so you're saying that because of the way we made BA a 4v4 game is essentially 4 1v1's wrapped in one? :DDD

omg haxxxx

Day wrote:"The problem with your last point is the fact that Warc has designed BA for themselves, which is 1v1 play. Teamplay in BA suffers as a result.

Teach your players that looking out for themselves is the only way to stay alive, and that's what they'll do. Teach your players that they have to use teamwork to win and that is what they'll do.

Atm BA is heavily weighted towards looking out for one's self, and that's the way that warc wanted it. TBH many of these things you bring up are as much a problem with the mod in teamplay terms as with the noob."

so you're saying that because of the way we made BA a 4v4 game is essentially 4 1v1's wrapped in one? :DDD

No day, that's not what I was saying at all. There is no way I can elegantly explain this to you, so I will explain it bluntly.

A game that is designed for 1v1 will perform more poorly in team games than a game designed for 2v2 and above. Likewise, a game that is designed for 2v2 and above will perform more poorly in a 1v1 game than something that was designed for 1v1.

Example of games that were designed for teamplay exclusively:
EE
Evolution RTS
Gundam

Example of a game that was designed mainly for 1v1:
BA

You have played Evolution RTS in a 1 on 1 vs me Day, and while the large game between us was a lot of fun, it was still rather lackluster was it not? This is because Evolution RTS is designed to be played with multiple people and teams.

I'm not disparraging BA here. I'm Merely pointing out that in teamplay games it grows some issues due to the fact that it was mainly designed to be really fun for 1v1's (and arguably, it IS).

If you already have a lot of fusions, a advanced fusion isnt such a loss, from the economic point of view, if we consider its basically 3 fusions in one that produce more energy than 3 normal fusions. Off course it will be a primary target, but if the enemy wasnt bombing it he would be bombing your other fusions, so it doesnt really matters. As for the apocaliptic boom, that is indeed a problem :) Its not worth making a advanced fusion unless you have enough empty space to place it somewhere it wont chain blow anything, and you must also have enough space in far in front of it to place AA and shields. (It wont be worth if your expensive AA and shield die along with the fusion in case it blows)

BA is indeed made for 1vs1, the teching system proves it... no matter how many players there are in a team, it takes nearly the same effort to provide everone with tech 2, so the greater the teams porcier the game becomes.

When you're a new player it's terribly unlikely that you'll get into a situation where you really need all that high-end stuff, most likely you'll fail long before then or your allies are winning the game without you. Arguing about the uses of that stuff isn't very helpful in a new player guide.

XTA Hints:

1. (Also applies to CA)
Dont start with a t2 lab. If you are going to do this, it takes a much more experienced player.

2. Dont start with an airlab, for the same reasons as number one.

3. Dont spam llt. Use the metal to make units.

4. Dont make an hlt until the location is very secure.

5. Always ALWAYS make radar. When in doubt, make radar.

6. Make a line of rockos/jethros or equivalent, com goes BEHIND the line. Also, make it a non-overlapping line so that the units dont fire into each other. Use com to repair.

7. DONT TOUCH THAT BUTTON THAT SAYS MORPH. Experienced players only.

8. If you sea an enemy transport coming toward your com, run away, and keep moving. Dont even try to dgun it or fight it.

9. DONT USE FPS MODE. Experienced players only.

10. If no one is attacking, MOVE FORWARD. Make more units, less porc. When in doubt, make more units.

11. Dont run after ranged units like missile and rocket bots with short ranged units like pewees, or with your com.

12. Listen to the pros.

13. Dont sing too much. Dont sing if you are trying to attack enemy.

14. Dont cloak, advanced users only.

To conclude: Don't play CA/XTA.

Kdr: Most adv structures are to noobs like crack is to a crackhead, this unit is 'UBERGOOD, I MUST BUILD IT' With little regard to the resource requirement or actual tactical position.

Manored: Usually, if you're spamming Adv-fusions (In my experience), they are usually located close enough to a fusion-moho pile that even 6 bombers can deplete your uber-resource pile from 'omg hax' to 'omg noob' in a single run. Typically, if you are the guy who's tasked a ton of builders to build an adv fusion in a totally clear spot, you've already won the game and the adv fusion is just adding insult to noob injury.

BA 'CAN' be a mod of epic-level teamplay, unfortunately, it requires you mine a almost entirely rare resource called: Teamwork. An Epic rare if anyone ever rolled enough to get it.

[TS]Lollocide wrote:Kdr: Most adv structures are to noobs like crack is to a crackhead, this unit is 'UBERGOOD, I MUST BUILD IT' With little regard to the resource requirement or actual tactical position.

Yeah but others interjecting "but they can be useful in situation X and Y" isn't helpful. Nubs won't be in those situations, it's simpler to say "don't use it. Period".

Don't stop pushing until you meet the enemy.

[TS]Lollocide wrote:To conclude: Don't play CA/XTA.

nub alert

Spam Flash

KDR_11k wrote:

[TS]Lollocide wrote:Kdr: Most adv structures are to noobs like crack is to a crackhead, this unit is 'UBERGOOD, I MUST BUILD IT' With little regard to the resource requirement or actual tactical position.

Yeah but others interjecting "but they can be useful in situation X and Y" isn't helpful. Nubs won't be in those situations, it's simpler to say "don't use it. Period".

Not everbody are dumbasses that cant tell the difference between two situations tough, and you cant learn to use something winhout experimentation. For example if you tell noobs to never use cloacking units because they dont know how, they wont know how to do it even after they are pros.

Tbh the only time you should ever porc is when you can't expand. For example if you're stuck at the back of an 8 v 8 game with 3 mexes, I would advise porc and hand out T2 then rush nukes

JAZCASH wrote:Tbh the only time you should ever porc is when you can't expand. For example if you're stuck at the back of an 8 v 8 game with 3 mexes, I would advise porc and hand out T2 then rush nukes

That's a tactic that requires atleast SOME practice, I've seen people build normal solars and moho's for 30 minutes. (N.b. I once did this in the backfield as it was quick to order while I macro'd the kickass front assault, which made my balls tingle). T2 rush from a noob typically means:

Build t1 fact.
Build one con.
Build t2 factory.
Stall for 20 minutes.
/scene.

And Kdr, I was just answering his point, I NEVER build adv fusions because of the explosion radius makes them useless. But then again I always scatterbuild my fusions so knocking out one does bugger all to the others.

And, on the issue of expansion, its great, but if you end up over-expanding and getting circled around, you're boned. On a Dsd game, I would expand to cover 60-70% of the basin, build some porc to give myself a firm hold and THEN push their defenses. Expanding with units but failing to build acouple hlt's means they could push you all the way back without trouble.

Total beginner guide (BA):

build 3 metal extractors, 4 solars, 1 light laser tower, 1 factory, 1 radar. Use commander to guard factory so it builds faster. Build 3 construction vehicles. Build flash or instigator on repeat.

Use 1 con unit to build more solars. One con unit to build more metal extractors. Third con unit to build light laser towers and more radar where needed.

Once you have a some flash or instigators, select one, press control Z (which selects all the same unit) and move them to where an ally has the largest most forward army of mobile units. Follow this army around and help them attack. If you see any enemy attack anywhere vaguely near you move your army to help repel the invaders. If you can manage to fight the invaders near where someone has built some laser towers so much the better.

Without anything more than this I think you would be more usefull in a team game than roughly half the players out there.

Watch replays, figure out what other players do to win. Listen to other players suggestions. Even if the other player isn't as good as you, helping them with what they want to do is two people working to the same plan which is better than two people working on different plans.

Unless the other player is really really bad and the plan is to build an advanced fusion. Then d-gun it and say Lollicide made you do it.