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Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 04 Sep 2008, 23:33
by AF
Currently when placing a starting position the only constraint is it must be in the starting box. Yous ee a little marker, maybe a cone with a name ontop.
This is bad.
You can start the game with your commander on a sheer cliff stuck for the whole game! Some games you click and then you realize its a giant robot and your screwed. Sometimes you click and you can start almost ontop of another unit and your allies commanders stuck inside yours like siamese twins!
Or I plonk down a start position and I get a huge building and the building is covering the 3 metal spots making them utterly useless
So:
- If your starting unit cant be built there you shouldnt be allowed to plonk a starting position there.
- No land only untis in the middle of the water, no building units on 90* rockfaces
- no overlapping units
- Mod and map definable minimum distance between starting points witht he largest value of the two being the one that gets used
- Show the starting unit semi transparent rather than just a marker and show the unit under the mouse too so the user knows and can see what their starting unit is and if it can be placed there, as if they're building something with a conbot
- Show where other players have gone aswell as translucent units showing what their starting units are where they are and how much they take up.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 04 Sep 2008, 23:35
by Peet
I think all of this should be implemented in mod gadgets (with the necessary additions to luarules if they do not already exist) to avoid arbitrary rules that could prove nonsensical for some games.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 04 Sep 2008, 23:42
by AF
Indeed, this should be food for thought. Anyone who implements such gadgets should offer them up as standalone widgets so that perhaps we can include this in as many games as possible where it makes sense.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 05 Sep 2008, 12:10
by Warlord Zsinj
Being able to play around with these rules could certainly make life a bit easier for IW.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 05 Sep 2008, 19:17
by TradeMark
i think it would be cool to show the commander in the map when i place the start position, but still somehow highlight my commander, so its easy to see where my allies have started...
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 07 Sep 2008, 04:13
by Gota
Excellent idea,would make it easier for noobs.
+1
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 08 Sep 2008, 09:08
by KDR_11k
I think using a build-command like interface (you see the unit/building, you have areas marked as red where the thing can't be placed, etc) would be universal enough, if the thing's designed to be placed anywhere the tags can reflect that.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 08 Sep 2008, 20:44
by daan 79
this is a noob feature.
Ideas
- max metalmakers at start = 10
- nowind nowaternodeathcharger alarm
- no more than 3 guardians in base
- air disabled for 3 stripes or less first 10 minutes
- all disabled when having after 5 minutes still no combatunits
- no dreagon teeth around base while allies is infront
- disable t2 for 3 stripes and less for first 20 minutes
- put highlites to combat make button
- alarm after 2 minutes no radar or noob still in base
- afk alarm after 30 seconds. I suggest a dancing cow in screen
- no need for antinuke/adv fusion/powerplant/shield yet alarm
I played to much spring :D
but this is a good idea(edit)
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 08 Sep 2008, 22:58
by Forboding Angel
daan 79 wrote:this is a noob feature.
Ideas
- max metalmakers at start = 10
- nowind nowaternodeathcharger alarm
- no more than 3 guardians in base
- air disabled for 3 stripes or less first 10 minutes
- all disabled when having after 5 minutes still no combatunits
- no dreagon teeth around base while allies is infront
- disable t2 for 3 stripes and less for first 20 minutes
- put highlites to combat make button
- alarm after 2 minutes no radar or noob still in base
- afk alarm after 30 seconds. I suggest a dancing cow in screen
- no need for antinuke/adv fusion/powerplant/shield yet alarm
I played to much spring :D
but this is a good idea(edit)
All of these are mod problems except the afk alarm.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 08 Sep 2008, 23:02
by Otherside
Forboding Angel wrote:daan 79 wrote:this is a noob feature.
Ideas
- max metalmakers at start = 10
- nowind nowaternodeathcharger alarm
- no more than 3 guardians in base
- air disabled for 3 stripes or less first 10 minutes
- all disabled when having after 5 minutes still no combatunits
- no dreagon teeth around base while allies is infront
- disable t2 for 3 stripes and less for first 20 minutes
- put highlites to combat make button
- alarm after 2 minutes no radar or noob still in base
- afk alarm after 30 seconds. I suggest a dancing cow in screen
- no need for antinuke/adv fusion/powerplant/shield yet alarm
I played to much spring :D
but this is a good idea(edit)
All of these are mod problems except the afk alarm.
all those are BA and noob problems *
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 08 Sep 2008, 23:20
by Jazcash
daan 79 wrote:I is a noob feature.
My failed Ideas
- max metalmakers at start = 10
( Play more Greenfields )
- nowind nowaternodeathcharger alarm
( Why would no water alarm ever matter? You can't build on land 
)
- no more than 3 guardians in base
( Now you're just taking away my freedom. )
- air disabled for 3 stripes or less first 10 minutes
( * Smurf cry * )
- all disabled when having after 5 minutes still no combatunits
( Just wtf. )
- no dreagon teeth around base while allies is infront
( Free metal )
- disable t2 for 3 stripes and less for first 20 minutes
( Poor porcing smurfs )
- put highlites to combat make button
( It's highlights, and that would just be annoying )
- alarm after 2 minutes no radar or noob still in base
( More annoyingness )
- afk alarm after 30 seconds. I suggest a dancing cow in screen
( Are you trying to shatter my brainwaves!?? )
- no need for antinuke/adv fusion/powerplant/shield yet alarm
( Whilst the enemy team has alarms " RUSH NUKES AND BERTHAS! RUSH NUKES AND BERTHAS! )
I played to much spring
with my eyes closed :D
but this is
not a good idea(edit)
Fixed.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 02:39
by Noruas
Before we start this, i think it would be great if we could draw start positions besides making solid blocks.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 03:13
by Jasper1984
Do not try to make the computer make guesses, and use them to force the player stuff. They are
guesses because it is not sure.
No land only untis in the middle of the water, no building units on 90* rockfaces
Not that one and none of daans ideas sound like good ones IMO.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 08:23
by Google_Frog
+1
Except this:
- Mod and map definable minimum distance between starting points with the largest value of the two being the one that gets used.
Just leave this up to mod makers. Map makers can't know how every mod is designed and a too high value will break some mods.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 13:57
by daan 79
I is a noob feature.
My failed Ideas
- max metalmakers at start = 10 ( Play more Greenfields )
- nowind nowaternodeathcharger alarm ( Why would no water alarm ever matter? You can't build on land )
- no more than 3 guardians in base ( Now you're just taking away my freedom. )
- air disabled for 3 stripes or less first 10 minutes ( * Smurf cry * )
- all disabled when having after 5 minutes still no combatunits ( Just wtf. )
- no dreagon teeth around base while allies is infront ( Free metal )
- disable t2 for 3 stripes and less for first 20 minutes ( Poor porcing smurfs )
- put highlites to combat make button ( It's highlights, and that would just be annoying )
- alarm after 2 minutes no radar or noob still in base ( More annoyingness )
- afk alarm after 30 seconds. I suggest a dancing cow in screen ( Are you trying to shatter my brainwaves!?? )
- no need for antinuke/adv fusion/powerplant/shield yet alarm ( Whilst the enemy team has alarms " RUSH NUKES AND BERTHAS! RUSH NUKES AND BERTHAS! )
I played to much spring with my eyes closed :D
but this is not a good idea(edit)
well i am not that big of noob to axually see this could help some noobs. But it was kinda a funny way to discripe the asked feature no need to take it serieusly ther are lots of important things here to fix. Still i stand with all those points tho.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 14:11
by Hoi
Most of the thing you mention are stupid becaus they take away the freedom of the player, a player comes to play and he will learn by doing stuff wrong, but this might work for something like a tut system (like there is in ca, but better)
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 14:27
by Jasper1984
Do not restrict the player; current day society insults peoples' intelligence enough already.
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 14:50
by Google_Frog
Most of the dot points either give the player more accessible information or stop them from making stupid mistakes. They aren't restrictive. When would you want to place your start on a sheer cliff?
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 09 Sep 2008, 18:21
by AF
Google_Frog wrote:+1
Except this:
- Mod and map definable minimum distance between starting points with the largest value of the two being the one that gets used.
Just leave this up to mod makers. Map makers can't know how every mod is designed and a too high value will break some mods.
Its a 2 way street, and my guess si they would both implement via lua gadgets
Re: Starting point placement that isnt dumb
Posted: 10 Sep 2008, 09:46
by KDR_11k
daan 79 wrote:this is a noob feature.
No, it also prevents exploits (e.g. NT-style coms spawning in a hole in the terrain where they can't be shot at). Also anything helping beginners is good, we can't have all our loadscreens be just a message about what kind of com the player gets.
Also very useful would be an ability to turn the com's facing like you can with buildings since some mods use com buildings.