Spring RTS Engine

Uberserver is included and I would like some definite stats on it if possible.

First off, what is required to run it
2nd, OS?
3rd, Roughly how much bandwidth is needed... Processor speed... Memory requirements

And now to the meat of my question...
I'm talking to modmakers here, and lobby devs

Would you support a lobby server where only non copyright content was available for play (basically a *A free zone)?

Reasons for this... Most of our new users and/or fans end up playing BA as a result of inevitability. With a place all our own, we could direct our users to a place where everyone has a chance to get some time in.

Now, in an attempt not to split the community up the arsehole, could Koshi and AF create a way to be connected to multiple servers at one time separated via a button or tab? That way current users who like both could be connected to both servers, while our (meaning people not here for *A) new users could be shielded from *A.

One must admit, that even if we advertise (which I do quite a bit behind the scenes, and have had a lot of people come to play spring mods as a result), our players inevitably end up playing BA because of the fact that other games/mods end up getting drowned in a sea of open BA games.

Our own lobby server could help fix that. I remember when all of 30 some odd people would be connected via tasclient, and look how much it's grown. I think we could do much the same with our own products.

The nice thing is, even if one game grabs a lot of popularity, I don't think too many of us would mind. I like s44, I like gundam, I like EE, Pure is a lot of fun, and star wars is geek paradise

Moddev and lobbydev thoughts?

Uberserver is python. 80 people is roughly the capacity on my horrible 384kbit upstream adsl connection; bandwidth use is presumably O(n^2). CPU and ram usage is probably better than that of tasserver, though would probably result in your dreamhost's termination.

As for the non-technical limitations, I doubt you'd succeed in forming a non-ta lobby server via any action short of starting a second, separate community.

indeed, running uberserver or tasserver on your dreamhost account will invoke the wrath of the administrators. Its expresslyf forbidden in the terms of service. Youll have to get a dedicated server account with them.

Peet wrote:Uberserver is python. 80 people is roughly the capacity on my horrible 384kbit upstream adsl connection; bandwidth use is presumably O(n^2). CPU and ram usage is probably better than that of tasserver, though would probably result in your dreamhost's termination.

As for the non-technical limitations, I doubt you'd succeed in forming a non-ta lobby server via any action short of starting a second, separate community.

My DH termination... It's a shared server... How exactly would you run a lobby server from a shared server?

And what is all this you and your stuff... How about "We"

You may not have many expectations for simbaes peet, but the rest of us do have expectations for our projects.

Why do you doubt the success? How many people are there around who won't play *A mods? There are quite a few. As a result you start at the bottom and plow forward. If your product is worth playing, interested parties will play it.

Starting a "New" community a the server level is quite easy. A spring installer for each mod, or one for all of them (excluding *A) is extremely easy to do... That installer would install springlobby, preset to join the server for those mods. If the lobbies were capable of joining more than one server at a time, then experienced users such as yourself could be on both with little effort. New users would not be hassled with it and would already be in a place that shared their interests.

Edit: WTF is this bull about dreamhost?? Where the hell did I mention Dreamhost???

Staying connected to multiple servers would at least require a big amount of work on our current source i think.
Packing up SpringLobby with predefined settings and such is no problem at all, but i think i told you that already.

As for uberserver: iirc aegis stresstested it with a couple of hundred fake users and it never exceeded 10 MB memory.
So the cheapest Virtual Private Server you can find should do.

Forboding Angel wrote:My DH termination... It's a shared server... How exactly would you run a lobby server from a shared server?

Quite easily, provided the server doesnt automatically kill anything that runs for more than a few seconds.

And what is all this you and your stuff... How about "We"

Eh, your OP reads as if you'd be hosting it, considering that you ask for information on US's performance.

You may not have many expectations for simbaes peet, but the rest of us do have expectations for our projects.

I didn't mention simbase at all, I specifically and intentionally used the term "non-ta lobby".

Why do you doubt the success? How many people are there around who won't play *A mods? There are quite a few. As a result you start at the bottom and plow forward. If your product is worth playing, interested parties will play it.

What advantages does a lobby with mod/game restrictions have over one that does not?

Starting a "New" community a the server level is quite easy. A spring installer for each mod, or one for all of them (excluding *A) is extremely easy to do... That installer would install springlobby, preset to join the server for those mods. If the lobbies were capable of joining more than one server at a time, then experienced users such as yourself could be on both with little effort. New users would not be hassled with it and would already be in a place that shared their interests.

Hence why I called it a non-technical limitation. I'm fairly sure that current users, despite whatever enthousiasm they might have for playing non-ta mods, are unwilling to switch to a new server; there's simply no point. New users would most likely switch to the primary server upon learning of its existence, due to its unrestricted mod base and higher population.

Edit: WTF is this bull about dreamhost?? Where the hell did I mention Dreamhost???

As I said, the post reads as if you're planning on running US in the near future, and the only hosting you have that I know of is your shared dreamhost; just making sure you won't screw yourself over.

dreamhost shared accounts auto kill java processes after a few seconds as part of their no bots or servers policy.

I've always kind of envisioned the spring server protocol working somewhat like IRC. Many different servers serving different groups and different functions. So, regarding the question "would we support third party servers", yes and no... We're not going to provide people to the links to third party servers from our default framework, simply because we want control over first impression access. But after that, we're not going to try to get your server shut down or something, that's the whole point of being an open sourced project. We won't prevent you from advertizing, even on our channels, provided you aren't badmouthing us, we don't mind bundling your server in the access lists of the default client provided it's friendly/popular.

I'd really like to see Spring clients able to connect to multiple servers at once... It's a feature I've used intensively in IRC, and it'd definitely be something that would help horizontal growth of spring communities. I'd go so far as to say it's something I'd consider as major factor for official adoption of the next official spring multiplayer client.

Jesus guys, it's not about me. It's about US. THe collective working our asses off on our own content. A place where we could guide our users into that is just for non copyright material.

I was asking questions because I wanted to know if it was even possible, let alone feasible. Try not assuming stuff peet.

If I was gonna do it just for myself, it would have been done already, limitations be damned.

So it is possible, it is feasible. Now the question is, should it be done? I'm leaning muchly towards yes, however, there isn't much point unless all or at least most of the modmakers are onboard. Otherwise if things stay as they are now, at some point we will all get tired or bored of our hobbies/obsessions and leave, having really gotten nowhere.

THe current infrastructure makes anyone not making a *A mod essentially bucking a stacked deck. WHy is it that odd to have a server where copyrighted content is not allowed which would give OC games a real chance to build their own communities. Do you guys actually want your games to go somewhere? Cause atm, it's not gonna happen.

I intend for multiple server support in battlehub but it would be a while before it happens. I intend to have the architecture refactored to support it in before christmas but I that doesn't include the GUI to take advantage of it.

My guess is players will stay on the more popular *A server. AA, BA, CA etc aren't just mods, they're religions. I haven't played a lot of online games, but every one I played had some religion of sorts, like playing the same map over and over again, claiming it to be the only good map, or enforcing the same weapon outfit and kicking players who don't comply.

It's worth a try though. I'm not a religious type.

This is only going to work with new users not existing users. The vast majority of existing users will choose to stay, the number who shift over will not be large enough to be sustainable.

Also when the new server comes on you may end up with yet another primary mod. For all you know Star Wars may start to dominate the games or P.U.R.E or your own game, and things will be just as awkward.

I would suggest it should be BA moving to a dedicated BA server rather than everyone but BA moving to their own servers.

New users is the whole point. Of course some people would transfer over most likely.

A primary mod for a non *A server is a good thing! That's a really good thing. Because there would still be an even and common ground.

Have you ever noticed that the people that play gundam, pure, etc are generally always willing to try out other non *A games? I don't see any reason why that trend would decline.

I don't think at this point in time there's enough users who want to play shit asside from BA/CA to self sustain. A huge factor is just that if I want to get a game in spring right now, my choices are limited by what other people are willing to play, and most people play what is popular for no other reason.

I don't discourage starting a copyright content free server, but I'm not personally optimistic about it's prospects. I think we'd be lucky to see 100 or so users total (not at one point in time) casually hanging out there to chat, let alone playing games.

I know I'd log in with a client capable of doing so, I just can't promise I'd play there at all.

swiftspear that point is irrelevant because hes not looking to siphon off enough users from the existing server to launch his own.

What he wants is to draw in new users as his main support base, which side steps your argument completely making it irrelevant. It doesnt matter how many players there are on the current server, and foreboding knows enough people personally to set up a handful of games to act as seeds for new users to latch onto.

AF wrote:swiftspear that point is irrelevant because hes not looking to siphon off enough users from the existing server to launch his own.

What he wants is to draw in new users as his main support base, which side steps your argument completely making it irrelevant. It doesnt matter how many players there are on the current server, and foreboding knows enough people personally to set up a handful of games to act as seeds for new users to latch onto.

Hit the nail on the head.

Starting to put some serious thought into this tbh... I wonder if Uberserver would be a good candidate...

I'd like to see it happen, I really would, I just honestly don't think it's likely.

Well let me put it this way...

In the past 2 weeks, downloads of the evolution installer spiked at 454 and I didn't even notice until last night. The site has also been averaging 80 hits per day, and seems to spike to well over 100 on the weekends. As you can probably imagine, I was just a wee bit surprised, however, I have done a good bit of offsite advertising.

Another user registered with the site (and by extension get emailed when I make a new news post), so I figured it wouldn't kill me to give an update. I generally don't pay much attention to the stats, but the downloads was at the top of the list and my jaw hit the floor. It's a damn shame that these people don't play it online, but I can understand the lack of motivation considering that the only thing you see in the lobby is BA/CA.

Look kids. If I can do that with Evolution, don't tell me that you can't with your games as well. StarWars and Gundam have HUGE fanbase potential and PURE is possibly (other than evo of course )the coolest RTS I have played in a LONG time.

So don't tell me that something is impossible or unlikely. That just an excuse to not do anything at all, and this community is famous for it.

Apparently Evo has the potential for a very large fanbase as well, and I know damn well that S44 will be popular as hell once it comes out.

THIS is freaking amazing if KDR would get off his ass and finish it.


All that to say this:

After seeing the interest that has been expressed to me. Not publicly by anyone, which I find to be very interesting... Maybe I'm one of the few people around here with enough balls to just start something myself (publicly), detractors be damned.

Needless to say, I think that doing this before .77 would be a large mistake. Additionally, IMO Evo 100 and PURE should be released before this happens (prolly because it seems that argh and myself are the only ones truly ready for mass public consumption) so that that way there is a little more diversity. I'm curious to see how ready smoth is for a new gundam (and if it proves to be even one iota as cool as the vid... It's gonna fucking rule).

Additional thoughts anyone?

Forboding Angel wrote:After seeing the interest that has been expressed to me. Not publicly by anyone, which I find to be very interesting... Maybe I'm one of the few people around here with enough balls to just start something myself (publicly), detractors be damned.

I can assure that too few balls wasn't why I contacted you privately about the hosting proposal.
I just find that getting things done is much easier that way.

Actually that wasn't directed at you, and tbh, you are right. In many cases that is pretty much the best way to push things forward. But other modmakers support something like this, yet don't speak up about it publicly. Probably cause they don't feel like being bitched and bawwed at, but still. It would be nice if they spoke up