Spring RTS Engine

So I was talking to my Bro. the other day about how people were making maps for spring, and he brought to my attention that ATI cards have limit to how big of textures you can use(something like 2048x2048max, whereas Nvidia cards support up to like 8000somethingx8000somethingmax).

What i'm saying is that the current map file format needs to be scraped for a new format. It will keep size down and will allow for larger maps

Heres what I purpose:
1. Map editor
->Make a program that allows you to make a map using a hight map as the data for creating the 3d mesh.

-> Then allow you to apply textures to the surface, using a standared size of 2048x2048.

->Also allow for a command that outputs 2048x2048 tiles of the entire map into a folder if you wish to make textures for the map. This would be eather grayscale tiles or a gray tile with the mesh in color depending on its hight.

->It would have sculpting tools for any terrian work, or making your own terrian.

->Edit and alter resource metal maps with a brush(paint mode).(this would be stored in tile format like the texture, except the game can alter the tiles resource use). Also be able to turn map on for when placing metal depostis.

->Feature placement: By hand, area fill, map density fill options. Also a feature libray that works simular to TA in that features are grouped by world, and you select which ones you want, then place them on the map.

->3d preview window that allows you to see what the map looks like with out having to compile it ad run it in game

->climate, weather, atmosphere, sun lighting, ground consitency, tidel, wind speed, editing options

->Would save the contents of the file, will only compile when told to in map editor

->Texture libray, for textures(includes main folder and any subfolders, and any files anywhere else that you select).

2. Map file

->would include the 3d mesh file of the map.

->metal map tiles(editable).

->texture tiles.

->texture placement info file.

->feature placemet info file.

->enviroment, lighting, ground consitency tidel, windspeed data file(main climate file).

->Metal map resource info and tile placement file.

->compiled for faster operation.

This would help alot in map making if implimeted.

I'll not hold my breath for you to release that.

-Buggi

yeah...and i don't suppose you are either going to make / help make this. even so why make another? Buggis map maker is AWESOME, eg. look at KingOfTheRock...awesome. leave Buggi and his wonder alone, unless you are going to make this yourself. btw he is planning on improving his map maker neway :S so wtf are you on about???

@min3mant : a new map format is a must...that's why SJ (and the other?) are working on it.
TA 3D has some good a not so good idea but he messe up a little between map format and map editor I think.

The think is : the better is the map format, the better will be Spring.
But sadly the harder is to make the map editor.
(I speak about number of feature)

We don't need a new mad editor. The current one works fine. Spring already has a pool of good maps and more in the making, I can't see how making a new map editor is going to make the quality of maps better!!!
btw Torrasque are you Spanish or something? Your English is a little iffy

Min3mat : I know I don't speak very well English. I try to do my best..I speak French.

No problem i can't speak english that well and i'm english!!! :O :)

Thanks for mentioning King of the Rock... gives me a reason to ::shameless plug::
http://www.fileuniverse.com/?page=showitem&ID=1027

The current map format is alright, especialy as there adding feature capabilitys and slashing the file size by changing the way heightmap data is stored... plus the fact there making a new hpi that will compress maps down futher and put everything in one place...

aGorm

Shameless! what do you have to ashamed of! that map is awesome i've already played it like 5+ times!!! :D

Min3mat :
I agree, some map now are very good.
But they are avantage to change the map format

I see 2 benefit to use a tiled format/editor :
- You can create huge map with small bmp. Now, if you would make a 64*64 map, you have to create a 4gbyte bitmap. I don't know any program to make such bmp.
- You can make a "tileset" package ship with the game. And map wich use this tileset would be very small, less than 1 mbyte. (but I you have a 250 gbyte hard drive and 10mbyte connexion, it's useless)

- you can always use the original methode.

Now, I agree we can ask : "Does really skilled people work on that instead of another think?"

edit : king of the rock is a great map...shame my PC don't really like it

Maps made with tiles in a game like this acctully look worse. Unless every single tile was different that is. But then thats no different to what we have now. And buggies workin on making it so that his map editor will make maps of over 32x32, by letting you make 4 or more bmps and then his prog merging them into 1. And maps (as has been said) are getting smaller with the improved format.
Oh and considering my KING OF THE ROCK map is made form 3 bmps, one thats ~2gig and the others that are ~300meg, the fact Its shrunk down to 38meg is quite ammazing.

aGorm

buggies workin on making it so that his map editor will make maps of over 32x32, by letting you make 4 or more bmps and then his prog merging them into 1

I didn't know that. Good idea.

And maps (as has been said) are getting smaller with the improved format.

ok, ok

Has anyone ever heard of Trainz? Well it uses alpha textureing, allowing you to overlap textures without any seams. It works extremely well, and is very effective. Check out the ground textureing in this picture.

http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/images/scr ... shot23.jpg

One of the major issues is that the larger the image the more menory needed to view it(espeicaly compressed images of any type). Also video cards can only display so big of a texture. Plus who wants 1gb or larger map files because of a horrendously huge surface map(the only thing that could run it is a rendering farm, and only a rendering farm or a blade server could complie the maps). Be sinsceable people. Think about all those great people who have given much to the TA community, but are stuck on Dialup or low speed DSL. Big huge maps are only cool if everyone can downloaded them, otherwise only a select few can use them.

"Change is what is needed, not a patch to the problem."

What we don't have is a budget and a paid team of engineers to make the perfect map format and engine.

Never compare what Spring is to what other games have, totally different realms of the field.

If I won the lottery I could fund some people.

-Buggi

I wasn't comparing, just pointing out a way that the textures could be done without having visable edge between textures, thats all.

Can people with dialup even play spring online? My ADSL lags to hell most of the time

Buggi wrote:What we don't have is a budget and a paid team of engineers to make the perfect map format and engine.

Never compare what Spring is to what other games have, totally different realms of the field.

If I won the lottery I could fund some people.

-Buggi

Isn't SC costing 10mill?

TA 3D.... The biggest maps in spring are only 40 odd meg... thats hardly 1 GIG now is it. Unless your expecting maps that are 25 times the size of the ones already...

aGorm

grrr someones got to send me a free copy of this starcraft game!!! i dunno wtf you are talking bout

You don't want to play it. It's like wc3, only gay.