Spring RTS Engine

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 03:51**

Today I was muted for swearing in the main channel. I was even using the swear as a reference. I don't have the exact chatlog to show you why I was muted, but I don't think it makes a difference. The interesting fact is that he muted me as part of the main server agreement, but I never agreed to this. Here is the chatlog between Aegis and I detailing how I had not agreed:

[6:14:13 PM] <Vaaal> Isn't spring supposed to be open source? Free as in freedom to not swear.
[6:14:34 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> free as in you are free to look at the source and do whatever you want to it
[6:14:44 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> but if you contribute, you won't get regularly payed
[6:15:01 PM] <Vaaal> The ENTIRE project is open source, correct?
[6:15:08 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> the engine is
[6:15:58 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you wouldn't make a good gpl lawyer.
[6:15:58 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> did you read the lobby terms of service
[6:16:00 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> ?
[6:16:25 PM] <Vaaal> I agreed to it?
[6:17:12 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> yes
[6:17:19 PM] <Vaaal> Where?
[6:17:29 PM] <Vaaal> I've seen it before, but only when linked to it.
[6:17:30 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you must confirm the agreement before logging in after registering a new account
[6:17:38 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you must be blind or such
[6:17:43 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> try it
[6:17:48 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you can't log in without confirming the account
[6:17:49 PM] <Vaaal> Y
[6:17:54 PM] <Vaaal> Huh?
[6:18:01 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> agreement
[6:18:12 PM] <Vaaal> Okay, I'll try it
[6:20:04 PM] <Vaaal> Allow me to show you what the agreement looks like to me
[6:20:39 PM] <Vaaal> http://vaaal.net/files/img/tasagreement.jpg
[6:20:57 PM] <Vaaal> Empty.
[6:24:37 PM] <Vaaal> So where does it say that admins have the right to mute me for swearing? It's obviously not there.
[6:25:04 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> try again.
[6:26:41 PM] <Vaaal> Nope: http://vaaal.net/files/img/tasagreement2.jpg
[6:28:09 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> does it say I can kick you?
[6:28:17 PM] <Vaaal> Nope.
[6:28:21 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> ban?
[6:28:25 PM] <Vaaal> Nope.
[6:28:31 PM] <Vaaal> Doesn't say a thing.
[6:28:35 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> yes, it does.
[6:28:51 PM] <Vaaal> Where, then?
[6:28:58 PM] <Vaaal> All I see is {
[6:29:00 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you don't see it?
[6:29:07 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> seems verbose enough to me
[6:29:16 PM] <Vaaal> All it says is "{"
[6:29:25 PM] <Vaaal> Are you looking at the screenshots?
[6:30:16 PM] <Vaaal> So I'm not sure where this agreement is.
[6:30:23 PM] <Vaaal> But I didn't agree to it.
[6:30:35 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> hmm
[6:30:35 PM] <Vaaal> The only thing I agreed to was {.
[6:30:41 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> interesting
[6:30:50 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you agreed to {?
[6:30:56 PM] <Vaaal> Uh huh.
[6:31:04 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> did you?
[6:31:10 PM] <Vaaal> Yes.
[6:32:55 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> interesting.
[6:33:13 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> are you fully sure?
[6:33:21 PM] <Vaaal> Yep.
[6:33:33 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you can't be serious
[6:33:41 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> have you updated tasclient?
[6:33:48 PM] <Vaaal> The latest version.
[6:33:59 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> did you update it after registering?
[6:34:09 PM] <Vaaal> Yes, and it still says that.
[6:34:21 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you are actually incorrect
[6:34:48 PM] <Vaaal> Unless a new version was just built that fixes that error, I'm looking at {
[6:35:16 PM] <Vaaal> Look at the screen, it says the version number.
[6:35:33 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you registered before updating
[6:35:50 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> version 0.36 of tasclient (the one shipped with spring) properly shows http://spring.clan-sy.com/dl/Agreement.html
[6:36:01 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you did agree to the terms of service.
[6:36:12 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> the beta version is a beta
[6:36:15 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> obviously
[6:36:16 PM] <Vaaal> I don't know what you are talking about
[6:36:23 PM] <Vaaal> But I am using the latest version.
[6:36:56 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you are using a beta release
[6:37:02 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> the latest version is 0.36
[6:37:18 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> but in case you don't remember the agreement you accepted when you used 0.36
[6:37:36 PM] <Vaaal> I used 0.36?
[6:37:39 PM] <Vaaal> I don't recall.
[6:37:39 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> yes
[6:37:41 PM] <[SmuG]aegis> you did.

He kicked me from the server afterwards. I find this very irritating. Others probably will find it the same.

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:01**

val wrote:BAWWW

stop trying to create drama

Satirik needs to fix the *beta* TASClient.

Version 0.36 of TASClient, which ships with Spring, properly displays the agreement.
It does not automatically update to a beta version when logging in for the first time, so you definitely agreed to the Terms of Service.

The beta version (0.37) you are currently using does not properly display the terms of service.

There is also a link to the terms of service in the $local tab should you forget them.

Terms of Use wrote:While the administrators and moderators of this server will attempt to keep spammers and
players violating this agreement off the server, it is impossible for them to maintain order at all
times. Therefore you acknowledge that any messages in our channels express the views and
opinions of the author and not the administrators or moderators (except for messages by these
people) and hence will not be held liable.

You agree not to use any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-
oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you
being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). You
agree that the administrators and moderators of this server have the right to mute, kick or ban
you at any time should they see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered
above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party
without your consent administrators and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking
attempt that may lead to the data being compromised. Passwords are sent and stored in
encoded form. Any personal information such as personal statistics will be kept privately and will
not be disclosed to any third party.

By using this service you hereby agree to all of the above terms.

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:02**

[8:36:31 PM] - Welcome, [K]Regret!
[8:36:31 PM] - There are currently 206 clients connected
[8:36:31 PM] - to server talking in 262 open channels and
[8:36:31 PM] - participating in 31 battles.
[8:36:31 PM] - Server's uptime is 22 days, 21 hours and 1 minutes.
[8:36:31 PM] -
[8:36:31 PM] - You are being hosted by fnord.clan-sy.com,
[8:36:31 PM] - main Spring server located in Stockholm, Sweden.
[8:36:31 PM] - This server has been brought up only recently,
[8:36:31 PM] - so if you experience any problems with it, please
[8:36:31 PM] - report it to springlobby@clan-sy.com!
[8:36:31 PM] -
[8:36:31 PM] - Statistics are available through this page:
[8:36:31 PM] - http://tracker.caspring.org/stats/view.php
[8:36:31 PM] - User agreement can be found here:
[8:36:31 PM] - http://spring.clan-sy.com/dl/Agreement.html
[8:36:31 PM] -
[8:36:31 PM] - Have fun playing Spring

Also, you're retarded Val. Go do something useful newb.

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:30**

This doesn't make sense. You tell me that I agreed to an agreement that isn't even there. Then, I read this: http://spring.clan-sy.com/dl/Agreement.html .

By using this service you hereby agree to all of the above terms.

So I've agreed to terms of service that I didn't see when I registered? I've agreed to terms I hadn't been shown until after agreeing? C'mon, that doesn't even make sense now, does it?

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:35**

No one has to tell you the rules, so you can't sanely argue this point.

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:38**

do you formally agree to not rob peoples houses, steal their cars, kill them etc when you are born?

doesnt mean you are allowed to do it

**edit** and the appropriate response to a MODERATOR telling you not to do something is NOT TO DO IT. i do not know why so many people find this such a hard concept to grasp.

what you should have said to aegis is "im sorry, i didnt know" and you could have gone on your merry way.

furthermore, there have been several discussions about this already on the forums, and the answer has always been "No swearing in #main or #newbies. anywhere else is up to the channel operators"

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:39**

and you did see them when you registered. read my post.

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:46**

lurker wrote:No one has to tell you the rules, so you can't sanely argue this point.

Fine, but this is a little corrupt for an open source game's main server.

do you formally agree to not rob peoples houses, steal their cars, kill them etc when you are born?

doesnt mean you are allowed to do it

Laws and ToS agreements are very different.

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 04:50**

the ToS is simply the laws governing the server

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 08:52**

The terms of service are the terms under which the serrvice is provided to you, if you don't agree there's no reason to provide the service to you.

Posted: **02 Aug 2008, 09:58**

Simply put, it's not a legally binding document, it's just our expectation. Our servers are entirely privately owned, and entirely privately maintained, we have no obligation to offer you access. It's irrellevent of whether you agree to the terms of service, they exist and will not bend for you.

We run an open sourced project. We believe offering free software is both ethically and socially valuable, we fully support your right to download, use, and modify our software, but we also reserve the right to control our own distribution of said project, and similarly we reserve the right to control the public face of our distribution.

We can't stop you from making your own spring website, offering your own version of our software (with or without modifications), running your own spring server with whatever rules you wish to apply, but we have no obligation to let you do whatever you want in our own space. In fact, I'd argue we are obligated to to ensure you DON'T do whatever you want in our server space.

I have things I EXPECT out of server moderation, and we do have internal moderation policy, feel free to appeal to my sense of morals or etiquette in regard to weather your mute was valid or not... certainly, context and intention are valid precoursers to a fair decision on that subject... but legalistically, we have every right to meter, control, or deny your access to our on-line resources however we so please, and for whatever reason. We really never communicated anything differently, and it's only your own fault you misinterpreted that. We certainly wouldn't have been the first open sourced community that banned someone from a discussion channel.

Basically, your argument about the legalistics of the TOS is stupid. Drop it. In terms of your access to the server here I can do absolutely anything I want to you and you have no recourse whatsoever but to call me filthy names. If you want to change the terms of the complaint, go ahead and make another thread, but this discussion is over. You still have to follow our rules if you want to not be muted/banned.

Spring RTS Engine

Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.

Re: Muted as part of main server agreement. I never agreed.