Spring RTS Engine

Is it possible to change a maps water height without having the source files?

Id like 'wet' versions of Comet Catcher/Red Comet, Archers Valley, Arctic Plains, Crossing 4, Geyser, possibly even Small Divide.

We need more decent sea maps. Just wetting some dry maps would increase the number of sea maps a lot.

The ability to set the water height dynamically with a 'water' mutator could be pretty cool.

You just need to edit the height values using SMFED, then rename the smd and smf to the new name (I forget which files name is hardcoded, i believe the smt)

r6079 (trepan) wrote:// MAP
- added SMF height overrides in the SMD file, example:
smf = {
minheight = -100.0f,
maxheight = 200.0f,
}
(note: these values can be changed by MapOptions)

just wait for 77b1

You can also do it with a gadget (slower, obviously):

step 1 to random map generator imo!

We need more watermaps for sure. So im working on some. Heres my first map ever:

Diana Beach
http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1279

Sabutai wrote:We need more watermaps for sure. So im working on some. Heres my first map ever:

Diana Beach
http://spring.jobjol.nl/show_file.php?id=1279

pics (and your own thread) or gtfo

I think we have a lot of good water maps... It is just that people dont know they existence or they dont want to play them...

I don't see need for more pure water maps because they are boring...

Instead constant developing of new water shadings, developers should concentrate on making better looking land (map formats?) and unit models etc...

That's why we really need a 'TAMEC' type site, so that you can go to the search function, type 'water map' and get a bunch of options, with most being rated and reviewed, etc.

just needs the ratings to be actually used

Kloot wrote:You can also do it with a gadget (slower, obviously):

Apparently this takes several minutes and destroys pathing.

I don't believe you should be allowed to, a map is the product of an artist, and the artist should have some control over the preservation of his product.

We've already discussed infringement by the game developer upon the mapper's product numerous times in the #cadev channel. If you need to modify a map to such a degree that it undermines the artistic product of the mapper, then it is best that you simply don't compromise his or her work.

I ceded reasonable right for pure balance concerns - type maps, economic constants, inserted units and feature scaling. However, the water level is as much an aesthetic concern as a play concern - like the texture and height maps. Mappers sculpt coasts, and they texture earth. Flooding a carefully designed valley or drying out rivers is their decision to make, not yours. As a game player, you are accepting the end product of their vision - and if you do not, you do not play on their map.

The mapper is the peer of the modder, and respect should be the cornerstone of their relationship, not subservience.

If you want dry maps, make them. If you want wet maps, make them. Unless a mapper gives you permission to tamper with their work, do not do so. These are simple guidelines, both reasonable and respectful. I request that you follow them.

neddierow:
That sums up my rationale for not having a default
MapOptions.lua that would let you change the SMD/
SM3 properties on any map (I had that discussion
with quantum).

I've had it with Saktoth several times. I did not realize that I was not alone in this. Thank you, Trepan.

By the by, just call me Neddie. It's a better name anyway.

I sometimes load up Altored_Divide in single player mode and terraform obscenities into the map to express my disrespect for Caydr.

But seriously, not having the map options default just means someone can make a mutator map that enables them. Right?

Of course it does, I might include similar with some of my maps in future.

No I mean, anyone can take any map and produce a mutator map that is under 1KB in size (depends on original map) but enables the options. They can do this against the authors wishes.

Oh, certainly. It would be underhanded, immature and immoral without permission but nothing in the workings of the engine prevents that given enough effort and there would be no way to prevent distribution given the circulation of peer to peer downloading within the community via torrents.

Without a legal case the right of a map maker to his work, i.e. the component images which comprise the map is unverified, and though it would certainly win in court if tested I doubt anybody would raise a legal fuss over the issue. When law does not regulate, the only watchers are those of internal morality and external society - both fickle and inconsistent.

So, the only things which prevent you thus are the trivial technical details - syncing, distributing - and the human element. The conscience inside, and the pressures of your peers outside.

And in response to your point with Caydr, a terraform is an ingame act which occurs in discreet and limited steps. The map begins as intended, and it responds to normal deformation as intended. Change would occur ingame unless you played a very dull match, terraforming merely gives greater tactical complexity to normal change. Besides, I enjoyed giving McGuyver a Baseball Cap myself.

I'd like to hear what more mappers think about this issue.

Authors of the maps listed above:

Comet Catcher, Red Comet - NOiZE
Arctic Plains - hrmph
Geyser Plains - Quanto
Small Divide Remake - Forboding Angel
Archer's Valley, Crossing_4_final - Anybody know?

Also, I experimented with using a gadget, from which I found the following:

• Changing heights via LUA does not update the color of the terrain, or the pathing water depths--in other words, it looks fugly and you get ships traveling over land. It only seems to update the slope. Further terrain deformation (e.g., cratering weapons) will cause an update in a square area over the area of effect. Although perhaps I was doing something wrong?
• At a resolution of 16 elmos, there's a significant increase in LuaRules time, but not ridiculously so, at least on my Pentium M 735A with 512 MiB RAM.