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Well, i read this Article, and allthough quite polemic, there is some truth inside it..

http://www.thenation.com/doc/2080630/cavanagh_collins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age

Let´s hope it doesen´t happen.

The first link doesn't work and says that there's an error and the page doesn't exist.

Thx Panda, tryied to find it again - and was unable to recreate the way i got to that link. Sorry. Nevermind.

Here is another one, same topicfocus from:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080630/e ... inequality

This Time working

We'll just have to learn to live more monkishly, non-extravagantly, if there's another depression.

As far as i remember what i read about the last depression it first hit first those who already lived a small Mans live. Result, Social Collaps, meaning even the little you need starts to move. Suddenly the Groccerystore you wanted to buy your monktunic, seeds and Gadgets is on the Move.

And the other Day your Doctor wents away... there is a point you can´t shrink below- it´s called Grave...
I don´t think there is a way back to prehistoric selfdependant lifestyle - even for seeming-close-to-candidates like Farmers..

Lets hope the Best we get rid of the Oil fo(u)r($/n)ever

From reading the wiki a bit this is just capitalism at it's finest (in the article described with subtle socialist bullshit undertones), I don't see the problem? That everything ends including golden ages, or just that people are jelous of highly succesful entrepeneurs? Better to have shitty times all the time for everyone?

I like my Society Coldwarstyle. Constant Fear of a Red Uprising was the only Reason the "tame" Capitalism spared it peons.. since the 1990s the bad old Bastard in Disguise is back, going for the cheapest Workingwhore of the World..
Good to know old C. gets Zpocks life ruined before mine, and no whining, just because the Redneck cracks a little bit building another Pyramid ..

People are gonna get screwed over no matter what, it's only natural.

Zpock wrote:People are gonna get screwed over no matter what, it's only natural.

Until 20.000 Years ago it was only natural for us to sit on Trees. Nature is Change, and we human change and make our Nature for ourselfs. So that is no Argument, it just lazyness. On the other side - you re right, if the voteable citizens of a country want it to degenerate down to third world stats, there they go...

Hope they don´t come as refugess..

PicassoCT wrote:As far as i remember what i read about the last depression it first hit first those who already lived a small Mans live. Result, Social Collaps, meaning even the little you need starts to move. Suddenly the Groccerystore you wanted to buy your monktunic, seeds and Gadgets is on the Move.

And the other Day your Doctor wents away... there is a point you can´t shrink below- it´s called Grave...
I don´t think there is a way back to prehistoric selfdependant lifestyle - even for seeming-close-to-candidates like Farmers..

Lets hope the Best we get rid of the Oil fo(u)r($/n)ever

If it gets that bad, bands of monks would have to form to produce food, "fight in the shade" (300), and hope there's at least one or two of them among them that have, at least, basic medical skills and know how to fish or catch other animals and little groups will form. Hopefully, they're not all violent. Maybe if they lived in a fertile and non-overpopulated area, they will be ok. People probably will still die, but not everyone is so afraid of that, nor do they have to be, even if they don't particularly want that to happen.

Let assume there are more then 50 % Percent of humanity in the citys, lets assume they switch back to monklifestyle out of emergency and return to the flatland, were in about ten years the first Robotic Farmas will appear (already GPS-Controlled, auto-linedup Plowing, driver only needed for the Turnaround at the End of the Field)

What a funny Situation: People we conquer that farm and use the tools there to return to a close-to-nature-lifestyle - oh, fullmechanized, ahem, any Programmers for a close-to-nature A.I. controlled Truck around?

For single Persons in non-overpopulated Countrys there is a return of lifestyle to back to the nature, however, face it, it´s no fun. Take the Scout-Barbequeu Romantic, take away Beer, take away Pepper, Sugar, Coffee, even salt, add Trichins, Worms and Moskitos, and you have it, the nature you never longed for.

I didn´t include the uggly Butchery you have to do once you hunted something (hours of crouching through Ants against the Wind...) because there is for sure always the Gail wounded, making the whole meat taste like shit... nature sucks once you have no choice, look at the Indians in France Guinea, they had a choice and took the States Alimoney, spending there Riches on Alcohol, FastFood and Prostitution. Anotherone who had the Choice, has decided against it.. nature eats Romantics for Breakfast. And don´t come with Sunsets- the most beautifull sunsets are made by volcano ashes, promising nothing to us humans, but bad harvests for the next summer...

Everyone agrees that being in such a situation would not be particularly fun even though everyone, even the richest of people, have a lot of problems, some of which I'm sure we can't even fathom and would probably rather not be involved with. If living a monkish lifestyle which, as opposed to your scenario, may involve being somewhat nomadic like the Native Americans used to be or possibly eating raw fish while gathering herbs is the best someone in that situation could do, I'd give them a hand. The Native Americans did a great job of living like that for a long time and were happy enough. As for all of those people in cities, who find themselves having difficulty adapting to the new situation, they'll just have to do the best they can and hope someone's nice enough to help them out. As I already said, most people would agree that being in such a situation where things are more uncertain and crime rates increase is not what they wanted to happen, but that's how it is, and, dieing or not, you couldn't reasonably ask anything more of them.

The Native Americans were few, eating low Energy Vegetables before a thousand years ago the Corn moved in from Mexico. Onl after that some of them were able to build bigger Citys, reaching Numbers nessecary to keep a complex society working (specialists need a foodoverproduction to exist, not easy to reach even with fertilizer-> living with natures limits means to find away to get rid of overpopulation-> Result, killing Babys (Herodesway), eternal small scale wars (the Classic) or the Religous Lemmingway (use this Boat over the Ocean to the promised lands, Manitu, Samedi or whoever will be withyou[Idiots])

After Thousand Years (having no domestic animals, therefore beeing limited in Development) funny people in little boats arrived (Maybe even Idiots looking for a promised Land arrived from Europe, bringing Horses (to late), Gunpowder (Godlike Killingspree) and Pocks (evil Step-Mothere Nature cowrewarding those with a better imunesystem, who stuffed here animals into Houses and started to live in Disease plagued Citys..

Last Large Scale attempt to get back to the Laws of Nature was made by A.H.

The Gilded Age, as I gathered it, has never ended, really. At least not the basics of it. The gap between the richest group of people and their immediate subordinates has and probably will always continue to grow to ridiculous heights. Beyond that, the gap between most anyone and their supervisor continues to enlarge to the point where it's quite the feat to get from one level to the next.

What we have now is a situation similar to the Gilded Age (uber rich that keep getting richer and showing off; watch anything on TV) combined with rampant consumerism in the lower classes. Everyone below the top is fed images of what it's like to be the super rich in advertising and programs everywhere. They can't afford anything near it, but most try hard to get there. One person will want to match their supervisor's material goods by buying a ton of worthless stuff to gild their crap and in doing so will rarely have enough money to educate themselves or do what's needed to get their supervisor's position.

Consumerism is the pinnacle of capitalism. Hopefully as it continues to worsen along with inflation in the US, capitalism will be thrown out for something better. Socialism is not better. I spent my first two years of college getting a my sociology major classes done looking for an alternative to capitalism. It's really the best way to do things until resources are drained to an extreme so we've probably got a good 100 years or so till something new is thought of and implemented.

That's only if we don't end up in a nuclear war first.

Of all the things that could cause a nuclear war, I doubt lack of resources is one of them. If you nuke someone, you can't really take their resources.

Decimator wrote:Of all the things that could cause a nuclear war, I doubt lack of resources is one of them. If you nuke someone, you can't really take their resources.

I was saying that we won't get to the point where we have so little resources if we have a nuclear war first.

But, a lack of resources (money, food, safe environment, etc.) is one of the major reasons why people get into fights. People get into fights out of jealousy, anger, or boredom even if they won't necessarily be able to get the desired resources because they aren't always reasonable.

Decimator wrote:Of all the things that could cause a nuclear war, I doubt lack of resources is one of them. If you nuke someone, you can't really take their resources.

bullshit, you did it in EE many times.

Note the lack of long term radiation in E&E.

my dead troops strongly disagree!