Spring RTS Engine

I'm thinking of making a new mod. It will probably be made for the Spring engine, though, as TA doesn't offer some features I need.

My mod will only have very few mobile units. My idea was to have only defences, of which some are packable (you could fold them up, and then move them around. This would be done by morphing). Assault would be done either by artillery bombardment, or scooting in some cheap defences, which could kill the artillery then. I was thinking of making 2 factions, which are both marginally different. The mod would be situated in the future.


I still have some major issues which need to be solved:

- Resource generation: how would this be done?
- Builders: I'm not sure whether to make the mobile or not, or both:
I had this in mind ATM:
- Builders: Can only build basic resource generators and flimsy defences
- Factories: These could build mobile defences, some which could be packed and move around themselves, others would need a transport to move.
sturdy, but would need some kind of transport to be moved around.
- Nanotowers: These would build improved resource generators and the best defences. An interesting idea would be to let them only be built on
geothermal spots.
- A decent name: Packwar sounds too much like Pacman, but it's the best
name I could think of.

My biggest issue with this solution is that Thor and Kuroneko wouldn't be so happy, because this is more or less a copy of their building system (NOTA's builders and nanotower system, KuroTA's transportable defences)

- Artillery fights: how would artillery be countered, except with more
artillery?
- Radar: would this make artillery overpowered? Could this be omitted,
and spotter units be used instead?
- Flying platforms: This would be interesting. They could fly around when
unpacked, but when unpacked, they couldn't move, but shoot from the
skies. AA needs to be included then as well.
- Sea and underwater structures: Any ideas?

There are probably more issues which will be uncovered when testing the mod, but I'll try to solve them.

What do you think of this idea? Is it actually feasible, or are there major flaws in it which make it impossible.

Rubenes

Dont worry abut NOTA or KuroTA, they hardly have a monopoly on those ideas.

Its perfectly feasible though its untested ground so it will need a lot of balance work to get it to play smoothly.

Id avoid factories making static units that need to be transported, as this means your factory would be clogged until the unit is moved and adds excessive micro.

Ive had a similiar mod to this in my head for a while, which is basically Shox's Emmanuelduckfarm in mod form, with nanos-building-nanos and expansion by covering the map in nanotowers, and no mobile units.

OK then, I'll let factories only produce units that can be moved, and let the transportable units be built by some special mobile builder.

My biggest worry, however, is that most fights will end in artillery warfare.
I'm not sure how to prevent this. The most simple solution would be to remove artillery, but that would make the game very, very boring.

I'm still not sure about the 2 factions, or their style. I'm not aiming to make them completely different, just make their units slightly different and let them have different game-enders (Just like SupCom).

Well, less talk and more work is where mods come from.

Chop chop!

My biggest worry, however, is that most fights will end in artillery warfare.
I'm not sure how to prevent this. The most simple solution would be to remove artillery, but that would make the game very, very boring.

Simple, artilery have (vary) low HPs, then have your air weapons platform have a cluster bomb or a high blast low damige weapon that takes out the artilery. Now artilery have to be far apart so they don't get rosted all at the same time. It would be beter too if the artilery where exspensive and was of the airtranspor-to-move type.

Shields can also end artillery warfare.

I think bombers would be a good way to counter arty, also a fast unpacking unit with low range would counter it. Shields would work too and if you're being attacked by arty you could move your buildings. Jammers could be built to counter arty so you could move your buildings. You could have a building like the dragon eye for spotting, this could be detected and killed so moving buildings would then be useful. Then of course you could have cloakers. With moving buildings, arty and jammers this mod could turn into a really interesting intel war which I think would be good.

Factories could build the packed up version of a building so it moves out of the factory like a unit.

For econ the TA way seems to work make a nano turret which makes energy structures and a unit for mexes. Mexes would force the players to expand.

I'd like to clarify what more things:

- T1 structures would mostly be mobile, and include basic defences (LLT, missile tower). These would be weak, and easily destroyable. The only unit that needs air transportation would be the artillery. Some basic air platforms would be available (some kind of bomb, and a platform with AA on it)

- T2 structures would mostly be airlifted, and some would be completely stationary. You would have to use nanotowers in the NOTA way. Sea platforms will be introduced. These will have limited use on most maps, but on maps with lots of water, these could be made. Underwater structures would be interesting (T3 submerged nuke?) Air platforms would be more extensive, and larger. (Sniper platform, with a very accurate laser to pinpoint targets?)

- All T3 structures will be stationary, and most need a geothermal spot to function. Air platforms will be limited in number. This prevents spamming, because you can't force them to be built on geothermal spots. Sea platforms will still be there, but more powerful, but I won't place a limit on these due to their limited use. Not all T3 things are superunits, some will just be like their T2 counterpart, but better.

- Resources: Energy would be done with generators. I don't know if this is possible, but could it be possible to reduce their output when they are built together? (Submarine Titans includes this, it does force you to expand)
Metal extraction would be done by a mobile unit, which changes into a mex. This makes it easier to expand.
I am hesitant to include metal makers, since they will make porcing that much easier. These things would be built by the same nanotowers that make defensive structures. At T3 a special resource generator will be included, like the Aeon Paragon in SupCom:FA. Again, this needs a geothermal.

- Commander: The commander will be mobile, but change into a building once you have found a spot you like. It cannot be changed back then.
The commander will be unarmed when mobile, and in building form possibly include a weak weapon (NOTA style)

- Factories: Factories are only useful at T1, because then units can roll out of the factory packed, as Google_Frog said. At later tech levels, they will only produce builders.

- Builders: At T1 these would be in Kbot and Vehicle form, at later tech levels flying builders could be possible to make. Expansion will be massively encouraged by this. Builders could make some basic resource structures (solar, very basic mex which is very inefficient), some basic defences (very weak ones like the NOTA DCA machinegun), and the nanotowers.

- Shields and jamming: Mobile deployable jammers would be interesting in combination with T1 structures, as if the enemy discovers you, fleeing away could be possible. Later on, these structures will only be airliftable, and the T3 jammer needs a geothermal spot to work, but has a very large range. Shielding would be interesting, and a good counter to artillery. (Can you use shields to misdirect rockets?) T1 will not have shielding, due to the mobility of these units. The T2 shield will be airlifted, and the T3 shield again requires a geothermal spot.

- What's the deal with all these geothermals?: On most maps, the geothermals are placed on strategic spots, and people will fight over them, to gain extra energy, or to build special structures, like the T3 ones I have, and the Behemoth, an artillery cannon, which used few energy and was powerful, but needed a geothermal spot. The players also need to make a choice what to build on these geothermal spots. Building the T3 generator in your base may not be smart because of it's massive explosion, but building it somewhere else will make it easier for the enemy to destroy.

- Radar and spotters: At T1, a radar vehicle and a Jeffy-like unit will be included. The radar vehicle, unlike the later radars, is fully mobile. Think of the CA Marty.(Arm T1 radar Kbot). T2 will have a flying spotter,a stationary radar which has quite some range, and a sonar to find underwater stuff. T3 will again include a more powerful radar and sonar, and again a flying spotter, which is more durable, and has radar AND sonar, unlike it's predecessors, which don't have this. (Supcom spy plane) This plane will be pretty expensive, though.

- Air platforms: These platforms would start out mobile, and be built from an air factory. They would be able to fly around, but not change height. (Can you make aircraft do this?) When deployed, they would hang in the air, and enable their weaponry. This makes them easy to kill for AA, but the more advanced platforms may include flares.

- Sea platforms include floating artillery and basic defences. When packed, these move around like a ship, but when deployed, become immobile. Underwater structures will always be stationary, and require a nanotower near the water to make the expensive submarine to make these. Underwater resource buildings are interesting, but again fairly useless on most maps.

This was a lengthy post, but it does describe what I want to make of this mod. I hope you like my ideas.

sounds good. it appears you have a fairly well thought out plan. now comes the doing.

perhaps make a few really simple units (nothing fancy, just a few crude models, enough to demonstrate the concept) and get a demo of the intended t1 gameplay out there (even if its only one side)

at this point your idea incorporates nothing really difficult to manage, just a bit of work. once you have a basic gameplay demo out there its time to start attracting interested parties to help.

as i said, the idea seems good, you have your head screwed on the right way, and you appear to be willing to take it on yourself (the community doesnt need thinkers, it needs doers) so i wish you the best of luck :D

**edit** luck and a little assistance in the form of some simple tutorials :D

basic uv mapping
model preparattion

Pressure Line wrote:sounds good. it appears you have a fairly well thought out plan. now comes the doing.

perhaps make a few really simple units (nothing fancy, just a few crude models, enough to demonstrate the concept) and get a demo of the intended t1 gameplay out there (even if its only one side)

at this point your idea incorporates nothing really difficult to manage, just a bit of work. once you have a basic gameplay demo out there its time to start attracting interested parties to help.

as i said, the idea seems good, you have your head screwed on the right way, and you appear to be willing to take it on yourself (the community doesnt need thinkers, it needs doers) so i wish you the best of luck :D

**edit** luck and a little assistance in the form of some simple tutorials :D

basic uv mapping
model preparattion

Thanks a lot! I'll try to make some basic units.

oh, and i ought to mention. you dont need to use morphing to pack/unpack the units (switch between movement and firing modes) it can be scripted relatively easily :)

I'd like to ask something about modelling. In Wings3D, how can you easily create barrels with 8 sides, 6 sides etc.? I can't seem to do this, and using the cylinder built in with Wings3D isn't ideal either, because of the fact that it has too many sides. How can I easily create these kind of barrels?

Easy


This will make any where from a three sided silinder to a unkown sided silinder

Oh man, this got me too... you got to click the extra little symbol beside cylinder and it gives you the option... I'd get a screenshot but I'm at work.

edit:
darnit... I got ninja posted... what he said

Thanks a lot, I never knew what that little box was for....
I'm remaking the units for my first alpha version. They were very bad.
Units which I still need to make:

- Energy Generator
- Factory
- Radar unit
- Builder
- Commander
- Scout unit
- Combat units. I'm going to copy the general design of the T1 kbots from XTA. This doesn't mean that I'm going to make a perfect copy of those units, but that my units will be based on them. Later on, I can always add in other units, or remove some of them.
- Artillery, which will be mobile, but will take some time to deploy.
- Geothermal plant

Units which I have made:
- Mex

Sorry for the double post, but I would like to know something: How can you determine how large your model is going to be ingame? I am asking this because Pressure Line's tank model in his tutorial is much larger than the models I make. Is this adjustable, or do I just have to scale up my model? And how do I know how large my model will be ingame?

One footprint square is 16x16 distance units (called "elmos" in spring). Your application should include a grid or something to check the scale of your model.

KDR_11k wrote:One footprint square is 16x16 distance units (called "elmos" in spring). Your application should include a grid or something to check the scale of your model.

Wings 3D does have grid squares, but they work in coordinates. In his tutorial, Pressure Line's tank is about 20 Wings units large. In another tutorial, a 4 square large tank was made. The tutorial said that it should be resized 10 times, and this seems about right to me, after comparing my unit to EE units. I'll just experiment and see what works. But can you convert Wings 3D units to Spring units? (those are the very little boxes you see when building something, right?)

BTW, can I find a good scripting tutorial somewhere?

As KDR said, one 16x16 square = a 1x1 unit in spring (think TA mod mines or dragons eyes) 32x32 = a 2x2 unit (TA lvl 1 stuff, flashes peewees gators etc)

and its best to upscale in your modeling program, because upspring does weird things when you scale.

Rubenes wrote:BTW, can I find a good scripting tutorial somewhere?

I should probably get started on it, instead of reading the Dune books. probably wont be out there till after xmas though :/

No, I feel that any capable modder is allowed to spend otherwise productive modding time reading Dune books because it increases the chance of a Dune mod being created in the long run... but yeah, making tutorials is awesome and greatly appreciated so do that too.