Spring RTS Engine

Proposal: Free Content is good. Let's make it, and provide a central location where it can be found.

I am aware that we have a "resources for modders" thread. While this can contain (and does contain) models, I feel that models are a special category, and should have their own place.

I am also aware that we've had many, many pieces of art that have been started, then sank into oblivion, in this community, and many artists have left us, because they just wanted to, say, make their interpretation of a tank from OTA, but were instantly assaulted by morons, and decided that we (the Spring community as a whole) weren't a good place to be.

That has to stop. Since I can't stop asshats from being asshats, I'm going to go about this another way- by providing free hosting and promo shots for any artists that want to submit work.

Basically, I propose that we quit talking about it, and just do it. I am sick of how many really nice meshes never saw the light of day (hmm, Dash Riprock's stuff, for example) and how many got stifled, because the modeler made a thread here, saying, "hey, this is my remake of Unit X from OTA", then people jumped all over them, and the modeler lost heart and quit.

Screw that. If you submit work to me, I will take it, period. People can whine about it, but it'll still be here, available for other people, who may not even say anything, until they use it.

If you make 3D models, and would like them to maybe get completed and put into a Spring game of some kind, and are, maybe, not-so-fond of the way that anything that is proposed as a "unit replacement" for a specific OTA unit always seems to get thrashed about, with endless critical posts about content you've spent hours making, which I personally find offensive as all hell... just send me stuff, and I will post it in this thread. I will happily ignore critical posts / replies, post a link to your model and a screenshot, and if people want it, they can download it. If they take it and improve it, by providing a BOS script, reskinning it, etc., I will also post revisions.


Requirements for Submissions

The only requirements are these:

1. Do not send me unskinned models. If you can't uvmap, then make a post elsewhere, asking for somebody to help you get it mapped first. If your design is cool enough, somebody will uvmap it for you. I don't care if the "skin" is just plain white, but if it doesn't have a uvmap, it's basically useless as a game model, unless it has a lot of work put into it. Sorry, I know that's harsh, but it's gotta be that way, or I will get flooded with junk. Use Wings, learn to map! It's really not very hard, to do a basic map. And I'm not going to turn down stuff that's mapped, because it may have been mapped poorly, k? That's a judgment call, for one thing, and it's a matter of practice, for another- your first uvmaps will be horrible, and that's OK.

2. Other than Trepan's request for a 10K uber-model of dewm (with LODs, mind ye), I don't want my web-host clogged with giant models with no practical use in Spring. Do not send me models over 5K tris, period. Do not send me something that is probably intended to be spammed (say, a human soldier figure) that is over 1.5K. Really, don't, unless you've produced LODs (with intact uvmaps!) as well.

3. You must use some sort of Open License on your submission. "Hey, can I give you this, ArrrGh?" is not OK. Just state that, "this model and skin are hereby released under CC-SA / GPL / Public Domain", here in the thread, when offering a submission.

4. I reserve the right to request that you repair any obvious defects or flaws in your work. I am not talking about aesthetics- I don't care if you want to make models of walking beer cans with guns on top, or whatever. However, if you have submitted something that isn't broken into separate pieces, so that it will be easy to set up for animation in UpSpring, then it's not acceptable. Parts need to be seperated logically, interior faces should be removed, and labels would be good- don't send me an OBJ, for example, that is a single Group, "Object001", for example. It's only a teensy bit of extra work on your end, and it will save people lots of work on the final end.

Ditto, for stuff with badly-borked geometry (twisted verts, corrupted geometry, obvious holes, etc.). I am stating this upfront, because if I'm going to spend any time on this, and provide the service of posting and auditing, from time to time, I do not want to spend any time having to repair your work. If I say it's broken, it's broken.


Final Notes: Technical and Aesthetic Considerations

Ideally, artists will submit nothing but S3Os that are complete, with origins assigned to all Pieces, skins in DDS, TGA, or PNG, of the right kinds for Texture1 / Texture2, etc.

However, not everybody is capable yet of making good S3Os, and some people in the community may be quite happy taking a uvmapped model and finishing it out, by painting the skin, etc.

We all have different strengths. Instead of putting all of the burden on artists who may just be getting their feet wet, I think we should be more liberal, and let good art find a home.

I spend maybe 30-45 minutes, per model, getting them rigged and ready for game use- some may be faster, or maybe they just like doing that part, whereas they suck at modeling or painting. The same goes double or triple for skinning vs. modeling. A lot more people can model fairly decently than can paint. I keep wanting to try and get all of the people who can paint to learn to skin, because their 2D skills actually translate really easily, once they understand the methods of preview, etc.- and this may be the opportunity, by presenting them with templates and lots of tempting geometry. Who knows?

Lastly... and this is all I'm going to say about this... while I will not judge your model's aesthetics, so long as it's not pornographic (sorry, but I can get in legal trouble, here in the USA, if I post nudie meshes or whatever) if you want the maximum-possible userbase, I'd suggest that you either stick to sci-fi or to stuff like steampunk / modern / WWI-WWII... stuff that is mechanical, or otherwise can be adjusted to suit a lot of needs. Most games / mods don't need stuff that is a really specific style, and a skin can utterly transform many meshes. But if you send in fantasy stuff, or really goofy cartoon characters, you may get a lot of deserved praise, for making excellent meshes... but they may never get used. However, keep in mind that many people come through the Spring site, and if this really gets anywhere, you may see your work in some other, entirely-unrelated game. So, don't let me dissuade you, if you have a really awesome vision, ok?

So, got models? Get 'em mapped, even if poorly, and get them sent in (via PM, to me, or to my email)! I will view them, make screenshots, and post them, in a new thread, or I'll continue this one. That's it. It may take me a week or longer to post, so keep that in mind, and don't get upset- I will get to it... eventually. If anybody else would be willing to serve as an auditor, and is qualified ("qualified" meaning, "I know you know how to load up a model, look for obvious problems, and provide a preview screen / render", not necessarily, "I am an uber-leet artist"), I am completely open to letting them do this as well.

And you know what? If anybody honestly thinks this is a bad idea, because you're part of the venomous minority who likes to dump on good artists' work... screw you. I'm going to take crappy Flash remakes whether or not I feel they're crappy, and I don't give a damn about your opinions, taste, or whatever. Artists, if you are afraid of critique, or find this community is unwelcoming, submit anonymously- so long as I receive written notice that you have released your work under an Open License, I can accept it, and if you make it Public Domain, I don't have to ever tell anybody who made it (GPL and CC-SA require this, of course, and I would prefer to publicly credit your work, but again, if you don't want to hear whining, it's an option).

I will say that I do not want my work posted by you, I do not want it posted by you because people will assume that is belongs to you without checking the thread and refer to it as a model from argh's site/thread. Thus the assumption would be that it is yours. Call that silly but people have already done thus about the models in PURE that were donated.


just a personal thing, not saying others shouldn't. However, why not just let the person post 1 post then update that when they have new work?

Maby it's just me, but I think I'd rather have a mesh source than a poorly UV mapped model. The quality of the UV map IMO determines weather something is worth texturing at all or not.

SwiftSpear wrote:Maby it's just me, but I think I'd rather have a mesh source than a poorly UV mapped model. The quality of the UV map IMO determines weather something is worth texturing at all or not.

perhaps apply a more stringent *quality* checking system for unmapped models. Swift is right, a few *good quality* unmapped meshes would more useful so someone like Spikedhelmet, than an endless stream of decent model with horrendous maps.

Pressure Line wrote:

SwiftSpear wrote:Maby it's just me, but I think I'd rather have a mesh source than a poorly UV mapped model. The quality of the UV map IMO determines weather something is worth texturing at all or not.

perhaps apply a more stringent *quality* checking system for unmapped models. Swift is right, a few *good quality* unmapped meshes would more useful so someone like Spikedhelmet, than an endless stream of decent model with horrendous maps.

An un UV mapped model that he can UV map himself would probably be more useful than a model with a UV so bad it can't be reasonably textured.

Dont mean to be rude argh, but tl;dr. Seriously, as much as the enthusiasm is surely appreciated, people wanting to submit new works wont read that. Being concise is a virtue.

Saktoth wrote:Dont mean to be rude argh, but tl;dr. Seriously, as much as the enthusiasm is surely appreciated, people wanting to submit new works wont read that. Being concise is a virtue.

sometimes new people need to sit down and RTFM, and read it properly. although the OP could be a bit shorter...

I read the whole thing. I just do not feel that 1 person should not controll the content flow of spring.

SwiftSpear, Pressure Line, am I missing something? Can't you take a model with a bad uv map, delete the map, and 30 seconds later be on the way to mapping it properly yourself? So where is the problem?

I like the proposal to make a central organized... thing.

As I understand it, it's more basically free hosting than control over content flow. It's basically just an organized version of UF dedicated to modeling content I see being described...

lurker wrote:SwiftSpear, Pressure Line, am I missing something? Can't you take a model with a bad uv map, delete the map, and 30 seconds later be on the way to mapping it properly yourself? So where is the problem?

the problem is totally denying any model that is NOT uv mapped. but it does weed out the people who will make units that are incredibly hard to uvmap, then just posting it up for someone else to do (ie lazy people)

but in all i promote this as an epicwin idea.

hard is relative pl.

smoth wrote:hard is relative pl.

even if its not a 'hard' object to map, it still weeds out the lazy people who cant be bothered to learn even basic uvmapping.

its a simple way to prevent people from just spamming utter crap onto there, esp since the space will have an 'open door' policy. it might still be utter crap, but its something someone has actually put work into, that ofc being the point of the hosting to begin with/

Requirements For Submissions (Condensed)

1)your model must be uvmapped, the quality of the mapping is not taken into consideration (but please do remember that someone is going to be texturing it, so do make a decent effort please.)

2)Nothing over 5000 TRIANGLES, anything over this will be ignored. Dont submit tiny models with over 1.5k (human sized soldiers etc) without also submitting properly UVmapped LOD's

3) You MUST use some sort of 'Open' license. CC-SA, GPL and Public Domain are all acceptable.

4) You must be willing to repair technical flaws in your models, twisted vertices, corrupted geometry etc

5) The model must be submitted in 'game ready' form. ie dont send a 'mech type unit as a single object, remove polygons that are hidden etc.

s3o models are preffered, with full object hierarchies and object origins set, supplied in a pack with relevant textures etc. otherwise use a format like 3ds for complex units (anything with more than one object) and only use a format like obj if its a 'single piece' unit, with only one object and no animation.

(sorry to usurp your post Argh, but its WAY too long, and i think ive captured the salient points.)

**edit**

and id possibly be willing to help with this, as i dont really have any projects running atm.

I think its a good idea, but would be easier (as mentioned in the other post) to limit to a simple forum thread here at Spring with the first post updated to include a link to the content & content name - or a suitable second thread where files and full discussion can be found.

Have to agree in regards to theirs no real point in including a model not UV mapped, or atleast have a note to state otherwise.

I don't think your going to be seeing many uber highpolygon models, apart from the skills required it also takes great deal of time, and generating normal & displacement maps can sometimes be project in its own right.

Yes, a License should be put within the zip package - perhaps a member of the forum could check through and kindly post a suitable one for artists to download.

As for the right to requires repairs I think that should be dropped, it will be upto the person who downloads the content to consider if its suitable for use - going through checking all the supplied/submitted files would just takes time (again if your linking to a forum thread then if people do find problems im sure it would be posted within).

Again for the technical considerations, its a good idea as a request but not a requirement - again it will be up to mod developers to process the content accordingly, aslong as the artist includes a storyboard or small avi of the animations if the item requires it. As soon as you start to have "Requirements" you will find people won't bother

Personally I don't want the aggravation, I normally just include two model files, LWO (native) & a OBJ export.

Textures are pretty common sense.

I think its a good idea, but smoth does have a few good points - and it also requires time from yourself to manage, and nothing stops you from simply disappearing :) having a sticky forum thread means its always their, can be adjusted by other people if required and seen more by the masses.

Hosting files long term is never guaranteed, perhaps simply supply a mirror.

Regards

the point of the technical consideration (broken models) is so that someone who has no idea how to model can simply load up the model, open up the textures, and start painting away.

and the hiding of polygons that cannot be seen, is just a good idea in general, so that the engine isnt wasting cycles to render something that cannot be seen unless the camera is inside the model.

i guess Argh's eventual aim (im not sure, mind reading is not one of my talents) would be to create an s3o format UnitUniverse, for spring specific applications. so that someone who wanted to make a mod (or at least thrash out the basic idea of a mod) could, without having any artistic ability, create him/herself a basic gameplay demo so that they could attract people with the nessesary skill to assist in the completion of a finished project.

Site
In the past I tossed around the idea of a structured moder resource site and I have the programing knowledge, skill and resources to do it but I need a solid week to get this done. I may sit down and produce such a thing after towerdefense as part of another site related goal.


Licenses
I like this one:

Creative commons attribution.

But that isn't everyone's preference. Honestly I think the releases need to be at least 1 cc/pd + 1 gpl
If you release under 2 licenses 1 being gpl, that way all things are covered.

Forgetting the lovely Wiki!

Their you go then:

http://spring.clan-sy.com/wiki/3d_units

Anyone can update and list your own content :) all it needs is a nice example banner to go at top of the page to make it standout & post a sticky thread linking to wiki in the forum.

(sorry not trying to jump thread, but thats what I can see the easiest solution).

Capitol idea pug!

I will comply with my models listed soon. I have a paper I am working on right now but later this week I will list all my works that are up for share.

btw, mind if I do some formating to it?

Aren't sites like polycount useful for a centralized model storage?