Spring RTS Engine

I take issue with this statement made by Gnome:

Learn to make your own content or get the hell out. The fact that AA/BA/*A's developers can't mod their way out of a paper bag...

Let me just state that Funta is in no way TA related except in name (and models and textures) only. I do lack skill in modeling, and texturing said models, but I have done much oh so much with funta, and there is truly no way that you can deny that.

Meh, not trying to start an argument, it's just that I don't care for blanket statements as they are generally demeaning to people that really shouldn't be.

Forboding Angel wrote:I take issue with this statement made by Gnome:

Learn to make your own content or get the hell out. The fact that AA/BA/*A's developers can't mod their way out of a paper bag...

Let me just state that Funta is in no way TA related except in name (and models and textures) only. I do lack skill in modeling, and texturing said models, but I have done much oh so much with funta, and there is truly no way that you can deny that.

Meh, not trying to start an argument, it's just that I don't care for blanket statements as they are generally demeaning to people that really shouldn't be.

agreed. if i make a mod that is just ta with different models, is that any more valid work than FA's work on funta?

i dont feel it is.

Also, gnome, if there was a large repository of star wars models sources and textures that just happened to perfectly fit SWS, all publicly licensed, you wouldn't use any of it?

Elitism against people who use content created by others is really really over the boat IMO. Creating art isn't the same as creating the fundamental framework of a game, and some will be good at both, some will be good at one and not the other, and some will be terrible at both, the assumption that a person can't be highly gameplay aware and an excellent designer without previous art talent however is very very ill conceived at best. You certainly don't say the same thing about modelers who while they may be very talented artists, you wouldn't trust them with a 10 foot pole with unit stats.

You still get my respect for mapmaking. There are some things I disagree with you about, but hey, it's the human condition. Tired is just a wonderful butterfly, and while I may have been a bit harsh on people like you somewhat inadvertently I certainly wasn't with him.

Thanks for editing my post, dick. Maybe instead of censoring me you could learn what a troll means and step away from your thesaurus.

Reposting my edit so it doesn't get caught in the crossfire again:
[edit] Holy hell, I didn't expect two people to get in replies that fast between beginning my reply and ending it

For the record, we did try getting in contact with some other star wars mods for other games to try to trade work. Only one mod team replied, and nothing ever came of it because they were even lazier than us. Regardless, we would ask permission even if it was public domain and if denied we wouldn't declare a socialist state and take it anyway.[/edit]

You have to admit, it was a good edit.

In that case we have a lot of wonderful butterflies, too many, perhaps a cull is in order?

I think his point isn't about taking existing models but understanding how they work. With many TA modders you could tell them to simply emit-sfx something and only get blank stares (or posts) back.

Some modders have me poking knowledge into them on TT :)

Basically what KDR said.

If one can't do certain shit at all no matter how hard he tries, then it's unfortunate but alright, as long as it isn't an excuse for being lazy.

Peet wrote:Some modders have me poking knowledge into them on TT :)

Heh, repeatedly. I wish I could come up with some way to put emits on more of the models but the way they are desgined doesn't make it very easy...

Gnome, what you don't understand is that I have gone much further than the extra mile with funta.

Effects, scripting work for those effects, incorporating new ideas, etc etc etc.


Anyone who has played funta is aware of this, I'm not sure why simply having original models and textures would all of a sudden raise your bar of respect. Try out funta. Take a good look at what I've done with it. Every release marks a HUGE milestone with so much new shit that it would require pages and pages worth of changelog.

Take a look...

http://www.temp-files.com/file/629820/FunTA-v55.sd7/

^^ My latest beta.

This thread is an advertisement disguised as entertainment disguised as a serious discussion on fair-use issues.

Forboding Angel wrote:Gnome, what you don't understand is that I have gone much further than the extra mile with funta.

Effects, scripting work for those effects, incorporating new ideas, etc etc etc.

Anyone who has played funta is aware of this, I'm not sure why simply having original models and textures would all of a sudden raise your bar of respect. Try out funta. Take a good look at what I've done with it. Every release marks a HUGE milestone with so much new shit that it would require pages and pages worth of changelog.

Because it's a somewhat personal failure for me if I admit that you are at least on par with me/SWS. And I don't mean to sound arrogant saying that, you can substitute "me/SWS" with smoth or KDR or zwzsg or S44 or anyone else making their own content.

Let me put it this way: S3O was introduced in 0.66b1. That was Nov 20, 2005, nearly two years ago. Since shortly before then (when the S3O format was announced but still being finalized and such), we (the SWS team) have been creating new models and learning the processes of UV wrapping, texturing UV wrapped models, etc. Two years later, we have somewhere between 70-80 units in S3O to show for it. All of them have custom made walk scripts (well, obviously infantry share) and other custom scripts and items which I can't announce at this point.

And that's just us! I know smoth is the same way, though without a team he can't work as fast on Gundam. KDR has his own mod. S44 has probably as many unique S3Oed units as we do. All of us (except KDR maybe? I don't recall when he joined) have been working practically since S3O day 1 to get where we are now.

If I admit adding CEGs to cavedog units, fiddling with numerical values, and changing weapon types to create a TA based rebalancer mod in a few months is an equal amount of work as the years we (SWS, Gundam, S44, etc) have spent working on our mods, then it cheapens our work, because each of the aforementioned mods have done all that and created our own content in the process.

I have no doubt you've put work into your mod. I know it sounds rude and arrogant, but we've all put in more. It's the same as a doctor telling a nurse he had more medical schooling. The nurse still does plenty of real, meaningful work, but to a doctor it's child's play.

Like I said, though, I still respect your mapmaking skills and the contributions you've made in that field. They're all better than what I can do. You're the doctor in that scenario

Gnome, you made SoW :D

More work? Granted. More professional projects? Granted. More valid games??? Honestly, I think that's reading too far into the way things work. Work for the sake of work doesn't add value, and until you put something on the table it's impossible to really evaluate how good it really is.

Smug goat.

Holy cow, someone insulted my skills?!

This is like high school all over again :'(

That's because most of the people here are still in it. =P

Worth pointing out is that Caydr's mod was overwhelmingly the most popular for Spring and its (also incompetently modded, it seems) successor still is. Where's your popular mod, Gnome?

There's a reason that code monkies are told what to do and then shoved into their holes: most are too dumb to understand practical applications for their wizzbang 1337 (commercially worthless and often dreadfully sucky) pet projects. ~~

youtube.com/watch?v=aqTaqVi9J8k

So Forb, you should go to McDonalds with Gnome's respect - that and a buck fifty will get you a coffee.