Spring RTS Engine

Ok, I noticed we have a mod/games development section.

can I ask that we split this forum into two forums.

1: mod/games discussion:
Talk about mods/games that are released, have say mod specific threads and share tips etc.

2: mod/games creation:
The discussion of creation and development of mods/games in spring.


just a request... feel free to tell me hell no, piss off, what have you.

Each sizeable mod should just have its own subforum imo.

I agree with zwzsg on that, It might also more noticeable to people coming here just to get BA.

there are too many mods/games. The alphabet soup stuff is already too much for me.

Hence each "sizable" mod.

Each sizeable mod should just have its own subforum imo.

I'd have to vote no. Saw what it did to the Freelancer community, where only the big boys, who'd gotten in early, had their own sub-forums, and got a much greater share of site traffic, and all new projects starved. It wasn't good for their community, and I think it'd be really awful for ours.

First, we'd have a big, stupid fight about the definition of "sizable mods". Sizable how? Historically important? Popularity? Whether the creators are good at politicking? That's just a recipe for failure and an entrenched elite, and it's already bad enough here, given the skillsets you need, and the time investment you need to make, to get things done.

Secondly, after the big, stupid fight, we'd see multiple smaller stupid fights later on, when (hopefully!) new game designers, with cool ideas and plenty of energy and vim, come in, make really awesome games, get an audience and... "ooh, we're sorry Mr. Pwn, we love ya, but we decided, awhile ago, that the Big Eight were the only people who could have sub-forums. We quit adding them awhile ago, sorry...". How would that be, for anybody who's pushing it? Again, been there, and it wasn't good. I was the sole newcomer to have an exception made, in that community, and that wasn't good, either. It probably really hurt some people's feelings, frankly.

Thirdly, it's just silly. If a game is ever popular enough to support its own forum audience, then by golly, the designer / team can get their own forum for that. You can be as stupid as a drunken chipmunk these days, and set up a PHPBB (I've managed to do it, even with add-on mods, and we all know I can't be trusted with sharp objects or really nasty code).



In short, it's elitist and would cause even stupider ego-clashes around here, it's bad for innovation by stifling newcomers, as if that wasn't already a giant problem, it's bad for growth, it's bad for politics, and it's bad for our customers, the players, in my opinion.

I would not at all vote against, say, a forum for game designers to primarily converse with each other about technical issues and practical problems, just like the art forum, which has (remarkably, and probably because I was a major dick about it, early on) not turned into a "lemme show you my latest fanfic drawing of a cat" forum, but mainly stays on topic about making functional stuff for Spring, and allowing un-released mods a welcome place to show off their stuff.

That might be constructive, by splitting customer-service issues from self-help. Anything dividing it further would be a move in a bad direction, I think.

All large mods already have their own forums. Giving them a section here would be pointless.

However, splitting into creation and use would make sense so e.g. BOS discussion and "Jugg needs less HP" aren't clumped together.

I think it would be good if we had a link to each mod that is playable forum in a sticky topic at the top of the forum. Have it sorted alphabetically so there's no arguments over one being at the top when it's "better" than another.

too much maintenance game/mod discussion and development need to be seperated. That is all I am saying

I agree. A "Modding" and a "mod-discussion" forum would be good. Right now the "mods" forum is a great way for new mods to build publicity, and if the forums are mod-specific, then all the smaller mods would be ignored. Would KP have gotten the momentum it did if it was languishing in the ghetto of the "mod discussion" forum while all the hardcore gamers were just reading up on XTA and BA?

Argh wrote:...

Sizable how?

...

You can [..] set up a PHPBB

...

Tobi talked about mod topic size as a good measurable indication.
I would add two "bonus modifiers" one for mods that don't break copyrights or trademarks and one for making the mod/game according the (an?) open source development model.
Also add a poll where 10-20? people would state that they would like a forum for mod x so you know some people would actually use it.
But nothings is perfect so I guess we will have some friction about this, still I do think people are quite reasonable here, we will manage to find objective criteria if we would decide to have forums for games/mods.

I agree that setting up a phpbb installation is not that hard but updating it, upgrading it to phpbb3, integrating it with the other site components, maintaining modifications, making backups and lets not forget moderating it.. is quite a lot of work.
Next up is internationalization (i18n) we as "Spring" can find more moderators that read and write more languages then a single game will manage to do on its own.

Wikipedia would be a good example, if each language would have had its own project with different domains/sites, different licenses, procedures and wiki software. We would still have to go to the local library.

Tim Blokdijk wrote:Tobi talked about mod topic size as a good measurable indication.

ok, so TD is more qualified then gundam.

Tim Blokdijk wrote:I would add two "bonus modifiers" one for mods that don't break copyrights or trademarks and one for making the mod/game according the (an?) open source development model.

TD is more qualified again, while considered fan art, I have no RIGHTS persay to the gundam mobile suits.

Tim Blokdijk wrote:Also add a poll where 10-20? people would state that they would like a forum for mod x so you know some people would actually use it.

Ok, so basically popularity contest.

Tim Blokdijk wrote:But nothings is perfect so I guess we will have some friction about this, still I do think people are quite reasonable here, we will manage to find objective criteria if we would decide to have forums for games/mods.

Not what i am asking I am 100% against mod/game specific forums right now. There was a time where I would have considered it a good idea I just think discussion of them and the discussion of their creation should be sepperated.

zwzsg wrote:Each sizeable mod should just have its own subforum imo.

This sounds like a great idea to me.

Again, each sizeable mod HAS its own forum already. Having forums for some mods but not others creates a value judgement that may not be justified and as has been said before it'll cause friction sooner or later.

Hell, with those demands you'll pretty much only see a BA, CA and XTA forum because none of the others could get the 10-20 people. And what's stickied at the top of the forum? Right, "BA forum this way" "XTA forum over there" CA forum is here".

smoth wrote:I just think discussion of them and the discussion of their creation should be sepperated.

This wouldn't work, because the player discussion and feedback and the modder technical question aren't that separated, for instance a player might complain about the role of a unit which would lead to consider changing them which would lead to technical issues. And people wouln't follow your sign, they'll post in the mod's thread which seem the most visited.

Or maybe you want a most elistist system like for the map forums, which a special forum where people (like me) who have done maps but aren't liked by influential map makers can see it but are forbidden to post?

*sighs* why do people always jump to the conclusion that some NEW elitist system is my goal? In the pecking order of this forum I figure my work on gundam is only liked by a hand full of people.

No the intent is for creation discussion and just discussion to be separated.

forum uses:

Creation forum:
How do I MAEK stuff for spring?
what DOES this tag do?
can sum1 help me with a script?
Why is this script broken?
How do I integrate lua into a mod package?
where are some examples of...?

Discussion forum:
Krogoths need moar gunz!
Latest (ABC)A is awesome but I wanted to know can you add unit X?
Pure Release thread
Gundam future plans
Rock paper scissors balance and YOU!
Slippery slope is a problem in YTAmegapack!

In other words so the technical discussions that new content developers will not get lost in thread like "LOL KROGOTH is AWESUM!!!11". That way people will not have to sift through soo many threads to see if there is an example of something that has been accomplished. That way one can become more for discussion like we have on unit design on tau. The other can be for general chatter releases etc.

I would never want the creation discussion to be locked because it would stiffle new ideas! Z, you should know me better then that.

Discussion forum -> Krogoths need moar gunz! -> yes, and lazer eyes! -> no, it must kill with flames -> agreed, but how do I shoot flame? -> Use the TDF! -> particle generator tags -> Creation forum

Thou cannot seperate it!

*sighs* nowhere near most of those threads end up being useful in that mannor zwzsg.

smoth wrote:...
Not what i am asking I am 100% against mod/game specific forums right now. There was a time where I would have considered it a good idea I just think discussion of them and the discussion of their creation should be sepperated.

Ok, I understand it's not (only) about objective criteria but you think the idea itself is flawed as it's not separating the gamer discussions from the development discussions.
Why can we do both? Mod specific forums and (per mod) a creation forum for development? They don't directly exclude one another.

How about..

Forums->
Game and Mod Creation->
Released Mods | Mod Development | Art and Modelling