Spring RTS Engine

Is there currently any way of:
- Skipping the NEXTcommand in the list of commands issued to a unit ?
- Deleting the LAST command in the list of commands issued to a unit ?

To delete the last command, reissue exactly the same command.

which can be difficult ... there should be a minimum radius in which a command is deleted.

And once again I ask fo the SY's cosnider a panel with a command queue where we can shuffle commands or save queues and copy them to other units.

This was always a problem in the original's build system. Admittedly, even with the lack of deleting mid-queue items, the build system was, and still is, head and shoulders above any other game's that I have played.

And once again I ask for the SY's to consider a panel with a command queue where we can shuffle commands or save queues and copy them to other units.

a) I agree that it would be absolutely fabulous with an panel showing the que of commands for the selected unit(s).
It should show assigned units + command type, map location/target unit/radius, etc. for each command in the que.

It would allow you to:

- Save different ques (with their names such as "Fall back-area repair duty", "Previously abandonded flakker build que", etc.)
- Delete commands at random positions in the que.
- Shuffle single commands or blocks of them
- Assign previously saved ques, or currently active que to other unit(s)
- The should be a hot-key for use when panel is not visible, to save the current command cue for the selected unit(s) to a autoassigned index. (Often you need to react QUICKLY and then get back to what you were doing)

Such a panel would be very useful for instance when you have issued say 20 different build orders to your commander, and suddenly an opponent rush forces you to start D-Gunning. You would quickly save the commanders order que, D-Gun the pesky rusher-units, and when finished with the killing, assign the saved que to the commander again.

Or if you have ordered a bunch of adv. construction-aircrafts have to build 3 fusionplants, an anti-missile silo and 2 nukes and the a lot of flakkers, but then your ally tells you that the opponent has a few rapiers. No problem, you simply move the block of flakkers to the top of the build que for the adv. construction aircrafts.

b) Until such a panel is implemented, it would be a valuable (and easily implemented) addition to our control capabilities to be able to hold down a designated key, click on the map, and have the nearest order issued to the selected unit(s) deleted, regardless of order-type or position in the que.

Surely something much simpler would be to look at the already existing behaviour and modify it very slightly.

Right now if my Commander has an order queue to build:

(1) A solar collector.
(2) A metal extractor.
(3) A KBot lab.

then if I press shift, (1), (2) and (3) will show in dashed outline.

To make the smallest possible change which would give the basic functionality, something very intuitive should be implemented such as:

Press shift, showing the queue.
Right click on the dashed square for (2).
(2) is thus deleted, leaving (1) and (3).

The idea of having a list in a panel is way too complicated: you'd have to have descriptons/icons for each action queued. Not that it wouldn't be useful, but basic functionality for this long desired feature should come before adding a whole new feature.

Another possible simple method of queue reorganization is, when you press shift, the last command is highlighted. You can hit delete, escape, stop or possibly some other command to cancel the highlighted command. Giving a different command would cause it to add after the highlighted command. The highlighted command could be changed by using the mouse wheel while holding shift. This would reduce camera control while pressing shift, but it may be a good tradeoff.

I thought we could already do that, *issue command to build a solar where you have already sisued the command and it's cancelled* or *issue move roder to poiint (A,B) to cancel it in the queue re-issue the order etc.

I also think waypoints should eb visible as markers and selectable, so that you can drag thema nd distort them rather than re-issuing the whole list of commands to move a patrol path.

@kneeslasher: I agree that we should do a multi-stage effort to improve the command que system. I like your idea of outlining issued orders with dashed squares when shift is held down, and clicking within a square to delete a particular order. However, currently rightclick performs the default action (which we shouldn't change), so one possibility is to use Shift+Alt, and when those two keys are depressed let the mouse cursor change into a "Deletion cursor" (red 'X' or erasor), and just use left mouse click on a particular square to delete that particular order from the que.

This feature would be a valuable first addition to our command que options en route to a real command cue editor feature.

If there are no (reasonably justified) opposition to this idea, I will ad this as a feature-request on sourceforge (Heck, and maybe even implement it...)

Afterwards we can continue discussion of advanced command cue editing.

@Alantai: We are aware that you can cancel orders by reissuing them in the EXACT same spot. Often in practice this is close to impossible however. Ability to drag orders - absolutely fabulous idea. This should apply to ALL cued orders that take a map-location.

I dont know about the cue interface... with saving and such... Dark Reign had it and... was a little hard to use (for me). Like it was too slow...
Even it will be nice if implemented.
http://www.migman.com/land/darkreign/pics/paths.gif

I had an idea, reading kneeslasher's post..

How about a numbered queue.
The numbers are displayed over the buildings in queue.
If we want to delete a building in the queue ,
then we press Shift+# (ie Shift+3).
(shift is already pressed to view the queue)

So that way should be easy to delete things.

To add something between items on the queue ,
we hold down ctrl+shitf+#* (ie ctrl+shitf+2)
(*this number is the desired queue order number)
Then the building that had the taken number in the queue,
adds +1 to its queue numbering (becomming number 3 in the example),
same goes for all remaining queue items.

This will make a hole mess with the keyboard, shotcuts and dunno what else.
(maybe using Letters as well?)
But it sounds simple.
Here a graphic attempt. (queue 1)

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/qmgaete

I will be adding more shot-examples after lunch :)

I don't like Dark Reign waypoint system, it's so bulky they had to add a simplified mode, and even with the simplified mode it still was so complex one couldn't use it in a real game.

And how would your system work when there's more than 10 actions enqueued?

zwzsg wrote:And how would your system work when there's more than 10 actions enqueued?

mongus wrote:(maybe using Letters as well?)

And if you look at the "queue 1.jpg" you will notice a building labeled "A".
Not sure if that works.. and its still messy, because the other shortcuts.

Writting more than one letter could be complicated... like A1 A2... not as direct...

anyhow, maybe using Shift + F# key? (ie Shift + F1)

Also to reduce queue numbered items, dragued buldings could be considered as only one queue item.

The possibility to replace the use of shift is good too.
(so its doesnt become bloated)..
Maybe a "enter queue edit mode" key?.
Right now, i do change view modes accidentally... dont want to mess my hole queue by a mistake. (exactly the oposite).

Ok, but what if there are more than 36 orders?

And shift + letters already have other uses. Like for instance, if you press shift D, does it mean replace order 14, or enqueue a dgun ground order?

I think that having a single key making a window with the list of orders, moveable around and deleteable, even if complicated, may still be the best way. Anyway, you don't shuffle order everytime. And it would take only a key press and one long click to put down a order. For instance by pressing Q (not already used I hope?), you'd see a windows saying:

build ARMVP 4454,5454
build ARMSOLAR 96356,753562
build ARMSOLAR 96356,754546
build ARMSOLAR 96356,755465
move 6464,453435

Then if you want to dgun, you'd press shift D to enqueue a dgun order, and see:

dgun 5465465,446546
build ARMVP 4454,5454
build ARMSOLAR 96356,753562
build ARMSOLAR 96356,754546
build ARMSOLAR 96356,755465
move 6464,453435

You'd then move the mouse over it, press down the mouse button, move the mouse to the bottom of the list, and release the mouse button when the order is down. So the dgun would be immediate. And then you'd press Q again to hide the window.

I'm not sure how quickly that can be done during a flash rush (or jeffy rush if you play XTA), but at least it'd be easy to understand.

If more than one unit are selected, and if they have different queues, it gets more complex. Maybe you could show all the orders of all units, merging the ones similar, and making lighter those few units have and darker those more units have, and moving an order would only move it for the units that have it. If your orders are set so each units have the same orders, but in different orders (err, this "order" as in "sequence", the previous as in "command), then it gets more difficult. Just do whatever.

NOBODY WILL ISSUE A DGUN COMMAND AS A QUEUE!
ALSO, NOBODY ENQUEUE MORE THAN 36 ORDERS!
AND WE CAN IMPLEMETN AN !INSTANT ACTION! KEY! (yes u know what it does).

Also, this method has been implemented already! i can prove it!
(yahoo dont let me share avi files. So, download " queue modify.jpg " (save target as..) and
change name to " queue modify.avi ")

now back to reality....

So, with this method, 36 is the limit of orders one can enqueue...
The did you count F1 F2 F3 etc.?
its 10 + 26?+ 12 = 48 not that bad.

The Q key is already used by the way, to select the hole group a single unit belongs.

I like the idea of the list, iv seen something like that before, and its almost like standard way to display todo lists, very simple.

Its true it becomes very weird with more than one unit selected.

I like the inmediate thing that you get using keys otoh.

Using the shift method, the order of the queue may change very often, when units finished them orders..
This can be fixed if the finished jobs are not un-indexed.

I think there are good ideas out there.

and.. somebody should code it, and cant me be because all i know about programming is a little pascal.
Can some developer shed us some light about the implementation posibilities of this ideas?

mongus wrote:NOBODY WILL ISSUE A DGUN COMMAND AS A QUEUE!

But everybody will want to issue a dgun command and keep the queue. Which is the exemple I took.

Ahk that dark reign thign isnt waht I meant at all.

I meant a window with a list of commands and a title.
You can drag the commands around and change the order or delete them.
You can assign them a title/ name and then assign units the command queue based on the name given. Sorta like a macro. I aint bothered with the many buttons and overcomplexity some people ahve proposed here.

To change waypoints you would simply mvoe them like any other unti on screen.

No need for anything else save a list, dragging of mouse, and a delete command button.

I agree with jensgb. A simple way to make the two simplest modifications is what is needed first of all. The deleting of orders and the dragging of the dashed boxes are two brilliantly simple ideas which need similarly simple implementations.