Spring RTS Engine

[IW]Gnomre wrote:I still get hate mail about the AT-AT.[or lack thereof]

i think that about sums it up.

Yikes, who hit the smoth button on our thread

I have thought about what to do about the lobby, and I've pretty much spelled out my opinion in the big threads we had about custom lobby filtering.

Basically, my preference is to stick on the same lobby. I think on the whole, it would be good for the Spring engine as a whole, as well as good for IW. I like the fact that someone who likes to play S44 and IW and BA can do it all on the same server if they want too. I like the fact that new players that arrive for IW have a pool of opponents that are not just from other recently downloaded players, but also from a wide range of players that are in the lobby for games of Spring, but also have IW installed.

However, you are correct that I would be very concerned about the surviveability of my mod in the current BA-dominated climate. I have nothing against BA, it's a very succesful, very finely-tuned, but most importantly, very popular mod.

I would pretty much be forced to go to my own server unless I could:
- make anyone who downloads IW via my 'installer' (that is, the one that includes spring with it - it will be most likely also accessible as a standard mod file) automatically join only #swiw
- more importantly, filter out every mod except for IW.

Note that the filter would be undoable within the lobby, but only via a sub-menu, so that a player who discovers that there are other mods to play can quite easily turn off his filtering, but not until he has arrived and probably spoken to people, and played a few games, etc.

Those would be absolute necessities for me to keep IW on the central Spring server, otherwise there'd be too much risk of being strangled out by the large and established mods.

Warlord Zsinj wrote:I have nothing against BA, it's a very succesful, very finely-tuned, but most importantly, very popular mod.

I would pretty much be forced to go to my own server unless I could:
- make anyone who downloads IW via my 'installer' (that is, the one that includes spring with it - it will be most likely also accessible as a standard mod file) automatically join only #swiw
- more importantly, filter out every mod except for IW.

Note that the filter would be undoable within the lobby, but only via a sub-menu, so that a player who discovers that there are other mods to play can quite easily turn off his filtering, but not until he has arrived and probably spoken to people, and played a few games, etc.

Those would be absolute necessities for me to keep IW on the central Spring server, otherwise there'd be too much risk of being strangled out by the large and established mods.

agreed 100%. unless that is done, all you will do is feed the BA machine.

Warlord Zsinj & Pressure Line wrote:I have nothing against BA

*edit* quote added for extra clarity

Glow teamcolor.

Default platter Widget.

Secondary platter Widget.

You can't do any of that with "paint" teamcolor. In fact, whether red or blue, your "paint" would look mainly black in that scene.

There's a third option, too, but I don't really feel like discussing it atm.

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of the platters - they don't really convey the sort of immersive quality I'm after with IW. I also find that glowing teamcolours can make TC look quite cartoonish at times (not strictly bad, but again not really what I'm after), but also it can be washed out if there is reflection+glow on the same area of the texture on a bright map.

no 'fence argh, but that map has sub-par lighting imo.

no 'fence argh, but that map has sub-par lighting imo.

Heh, no offense taken. It's a night map, and I'm deliberately keeping the shadows a little less dark than reality.

they don't really convey the sort of immersive quality I'm after with IW

Immersion's great, so long as it serves players. Lots of teamcolor breaks immersion, because it looks very silly. However, players whine if they cannot tell who's on what side instantly. Any solution is therefore a compromise. You can stick with what you're doing, by all means, but at that point, my vote's with the people who have said that it must all be consistent, otherwise tbh it'll look rather off.

but also it can be washed out if there is reflection+glow on the same area of the texture on a bright map.

Then don't put reflection on that area. It's pretty simple.

Argh wrote:

they don't really convey the sort of immersive quality I'm after with IW

Immersion's great, so long as it serves players. Lots of teamcolor breaks immersion, because it looks very silly. However, players whine if they cannot tell who's on what side instantly.

actually I like it when my units are a color because I would like to see an army in that color.

I'm pretty sure you can do that with the existing lobbies right now - they have support for user-defined filtering and user-defined default chat rooms, so you'd just have to make your installer either bundle the configs or edit them post-install.

platters are fugly.

<shrugs> They're optional. It's just a Widget. Kinda the point, tbh. No one choice is going to please everybody.

You dont need a platter for all units you need your widget to become a gadget that highlights important units that you must quickly find in a big group of mixed units,like construction units in BA for example.
Not just a platter to appear under each unit.
You ca nalso add a widget to also show the team colored circles when you select your unit or a group of units that belong to you.
If you engage in combat and your units are fighting with your enemy's units and corssing paths with them you can make a big selection box in an instant,select them and the platter will appear,showing you exactly how your group is doing compared to the other one.
If you want truly usefull widgets and gadgets think of stuff that will be useable under a very stressfull game,like a top notch 1v1 and than think if the widget you have in mind will be useble in situations and in the time scale encountered in these very high pressure,fast paced games.
If the widget or gadgets work for such situations these are gadgets and widgets you need to keep if not you shouldnt add them.
they will only add to the confusion of a newbie player especially when playing against top players that will have already mapped those worthless widgets out through extensive experience with your game.

I'm pretty sure that they are going to do what they want to do. It seems like they don't want circles/platters at all.

Gota wrote:a newbie player especially when playing against top players

a newbie is going to lose against a 'top player' regardless of any widget(s) anyway. whatever you you said only really applies in games where the players have roughly equal skill.

Generally unless it's a critical component of the gameplay (as in "without this you cannot play the game") interface components should always be widgets because then people can remove them or use better third-party implementations. Gadgets cannot be disabled without pretty much breaking the mod.

TCs aren't that hard IMO, you probably already have a limited number of main colors on your model, just replace one of them with TC. Preferrably one that covers large, continuous areas. It becomes a problem when you try to work after an existing design but especially PURE has the full freedom to e.g. replace that beige on the OM units with TC. Even on that night shot some units have fairly clear TC, I think it's just a design error when the TC cannot be seen quickly.

I play SWIW beta pretty regularly, and have never ever had any confusion as to which are my units and which are an opponents or allies.

pintle wrote:I play SWIW beta pretty regularly, and have never ever had any confusion as to which are my units and which are an opponents or allies.

That's in part because most matches are imp vs reb though.

starwars and pure have unit/team differentiation easy. S44& gundam have a hard time both projects have units that look very similar in silhouette. S44 has infantry gundam has mechs.

Starwars is fine and s44 wants to be more authentic so they avoid large splats of teamcolor. I do not agree with argh's assertion but I think his team color players are kinda pretty. As someone who has complete freedom of design I think of all of us he should have had the easiest time doing teamcolors.

Ultimately it is a design decision for each team and frankly that is their business. We can suggest this or that but it is not us who decides and frankly because the teams each have their own direction, each one has a solution they honestly feel is the best so we really end up arguing opinions on a project that we have no say over.

The ONLY reason I bug zsinj about the team colors in starwars is that is one area I have always talked to him about. In a way that is where i try to give most of my feedback. Not that it matters much, as I said it is the IW teams prerogative not mine. I did not intend on starting any shit storm. I always mention teamcolor to help warlord get consistent hue and shade which is an area he has issues with.

Star Wars has differences between vehicles and stuff but your main force is little humanoids with laser guns.

It also has colored icons on the health bars that have the team color so it's easy to tell which units are whose

I guess I ought to spec more starwars I seem to recall only a handful of infantry when I played the old version with the rest being vehicles and weird droids. Then again I played the empire side in the ota version