Spring RTS Engine

give home bases a mid-range weak aa-turret?

I know that problem, KDR - what I meant wasn't some sort of rapid-fire turret, but an annihilator-like weapon. Something that is massive overkill against bits and has a terrible rate-of-fire.

Alternately, tweak the Flow's stats so it's only useful in mass engagements? Like, weaken its weapon's DPS and buff its blast radius?

Idunno, I'm just spitballing here.

The mass engagement stat thing would be difficult because we're talking one flow against maybe 5 bits. AA turrets would be plain weird since there are only two air units in the game and one of them is a superweapon.

An anni weapon could be possible but I still don't like the idea of sticking a weapon on the kernel, especially not a sniper gun (dependiong on the range and behaviour it could very well affect the regular fighting on MM, remember that map is TINY).

How about re-versioning MM to a more appropriate scale?

Edit: I'm assuming we're playing MM because people like its map design; Uncomplicated map (just 4 corners and a single hill in the center), an appropriate number of geos for a 1-4 player game. (Compared to Major Madness etc).

Though it's probably the case that we've just unconsciously "associated" the MM map look with KP

i still maintain that the best solution would be to call the first flow the SYN-ACK/Handshake and make it twice or more longer to build

I updated http://jobjol.nl/1683 and http://jobjol.nl/1684 : the installer is now based on Spring 78.1.1, and the KP Launcher pick prettier colors, and doesn't close when you start spring. I would like some people to give me feedback on my installer btw. Does it touch things it shouldn't when installed over an existing Spring? Is it lacking a thing or two that would make it easier for people trying Spring for the first time?

Google_Frog wrote:Also give all constructors and factories a workertime of 1 so that build costs are easier to interpret. Also find some way to display the build speed bonus that the kernal gets from owning extra sockets.

I'm afraid that changing all wortkertimer to 1 would cause plenty and plenty of errors due to Spring rounding error (buildpower has a granularity of 32 as far as I've been told.) But I agree that it would be nice to have the buildtime in second. However, instead of editing the actual builtime and buildpower, I want to edit the tooltip. Also, this way I would also remove the metal and energy cost, production, and consumption, and maybe add KP-only info (such as homebase build speed bonus, charge of specials, ONS status, number of virtual packet lost if port lost, etc..).

However, I do not know what entry point to use to modify the tooltip.
- I know about Spring.SetUnitTooltip(unit_id,txt) however, that only works for existing units, one at a time, and once touched the tooltip is fixed for that unit. So, that way, I cannot change the tooltip in buildmenus, and I cannot update the tooltip according to health for instance, unless I run it for every unit every frame, which I'm afraid would be costly.
- I know about function widget:GetTooltip(x,y) but then I have to determine by myself what is the mouse hovering over, and I would rather have the engine tells me if it's over an existing unit or an icon in a buildmenu, and then the ID of the unit or the ID of the Unit Def, instead of having to determine that by my code and risking getting it wrong whenever someone use a tweaked menu or whatever.

KDR_11k wrote:The problem was with the stupid Marble Madness map that's still highly popular

Pxtl wrote:its main flaw is that it has too many vents that are too close together.

Marble Madness is a very fine KP map. The geo close together are a good thing, it means you don't spend the first 5 mins building without seeing enemy, and it makes it the only map where the placing of cons during construction plays a big role (they need to be positionned in a way they can protected and don't block your other units). Plus it always gives me a thrill to build a socket on Marble Madness with a lone cons and seeing the enemy on the socket just next to it and praying for him to not make a move before I gather more bits.

Sertse wrote:How about re-versioning MM to a more appropriate scale?

No, don't "reversion" MM. However, yes, it would be nice to have another KP map with a new design and a size somewhat around Digital Divide. I'll probably make one some day.

As for the flow problem, well, once I fix the collision sphere, first I'd have to check that it really is that uncounterable on MM, I mean, a couple bits can kill it, no? And also, isn't going pointer first on MM as an uncounterable tactic?

I dislike complicated solution like making the first flow a different unit or having its speed change during the game.

And why can't the flow be always slow? Sure, in real life and in Total Annihilation, what fly is generally much faster, but it doesn't have to be the case in KP.

But keep on discussing the flow issue, I'm not yet sure what's the best for it.

the problem with flow on MM is that it can be put up on the hill and it'll still be in range to kill bits on the lower ground, and they won't be able to fire back. this is pretty much gg, system vs network must start with a byte or get owned.

Then I will have to check that the bit range is cylindrical (as opposed to spherical).

In that case, it's worth discussing what the strategic importance of hills in KP _is_. I mean, what do you get for hills? Rangeboosts for the Pointers, speedboosts going down hill (and penalties going up hill). What else?

The flow can't be slow enough that it doesn't get across MM too quickly without being completely useless later on. It moves in a straight line without stopping for the hill. The flow's approach to combat is skirmishing, it must stay out of range of the enemy main force and if it moves slowly it would be too easy to catch.

hills give same tactical advantages as in any other games - faster force deployment downhill and 360 LOS. btw do pointers increase their range with height? IIRC they don't.

I'm grasping at straws here, but perhaps buff the top speed and nerf the acceleration severely? That would reduce its combat ability though.

Alternately, there was the idea I had a while ago - the home base can build an immobile turret. My old idea was for it to be a last-line-of-defense, but mixing it with the annihilator idea could work. That is, when the player has a problem at the home base, he can click a button that makes the home base abandon its current project and quickly build a fire-support thing that fires homing vlaunches that fills the role of the annihilator (and possibly has a short-ranged weapon too). Then, when the disaster has passed, the home-base can convert back into construction. This would mean that it is useless for stopping a final assault (since the player is giving up the last of his construction capacity), but it could offer the player a reprieve if a strike hits home - convert the base and take out some attackers, bring in reinforcements, and then convert back.

It could cause problems of the game getting moribund in the end game, but it would ensure that there could always be a final battle instead of the typical anticlimactic execution (or assassination). And it would make rushing the home-base less of a concern on small maps.

zwzsg wrote:

Google_Frog wrote:Also give all constructors and factories a workertime of 1 so that build costs are easier to interpret. Also find some way to display the build speed bonus that the kernal gets from owning extra sockets.

I'm afraid that changing all wortkertimer to 1 would cause plenty and plenty of errors due to Spring rounding error (buildpower has a granularity of 32 as far as I've been told.) But I agree that it would be nice to have the buildtime in second. However, instead of editing the actual builtime and buildpower, I want to edit the tooltip.

By making this, I realised that some faction have different workertime for their homebase and minifac. More precisely, all workertime are 128, save for the socket, thminifac, and window. Right now my widget is assuming a fixed workertime of 128 for translating builtime in seconds. I guess I could check for builders in the group of selected unit, and use the workertime found there. But what if both an assembler and a socket were selected? Then I would have to somehow determine who does the button belongs to, several more lines of complex code. And what if both a socket and kernel are selected and the tooltip is about the bit?

Meh. Use EditUnitCmdDesc and let Spring resolve that.

I updated http://jobjol.nl/1683 and http://jobjol.nl/1684 because new Spring version made me make new installer and new single player launcher.

The new tooltip is coming along nicely:






But I still have a little list of things to fix before KP 3.2

the download link from the OP seems to be down

is

I updated http://jobjol.nl/1683 and http://jobjol.nl/1684 because new Spring version made me make new installer and new single player launcher.

the "official" version, im confused due to the fact that springdownloader gives me 12379152 different kernel panic versions to download ?

What's OP?

The lastest "official" version is Kernel Panic 3.1.

http://jobjol.nl/1683
http://jobjol.nl/1684
http://jobjol.nl/1685
Will install the same version of the Kernel Panic mod. The difference is that http://jobjol.nl/1683 installs everything (Spring, the mod, the maps, ...), http://jobjol.nl/1684 is a zip containing the mod and the maps and the Single Player Launcher, http://jobjol.nl/1685 is just the mod.

If you're a bit lost I suggest going with the complete installer: http://jobjol.nl/1683 (works fine even over an existing Spring install)

zwzsg wrote:What's OP?

The lastest "official" version is Kernel Panic 3.1.

http://jobjol.nl/1683
http://jobjol.nl/1684
http://jobjol.nl/1685
Will install the same version of the Kernel Panic mod. The difference is that http://jobjol.nl/1683 installs everything (Spring, the mod, the maps, ...), http://jobjol.nl/1684 is a zip containing the mod and the maps and the Single Player Launcher, http://jobjol.nl/1685 is just the mod.

If you're a bit lost I suggest going with the complete installer: http://jobjol.nl/1683 (works fine even over an existing Spring install)

the op = the original poster, aka thread starter

okay then i accidently got it right :)

By using soon-to-be-banned technics, I managed to make it so that when Spring.exe is run directly, it shows a little menu with item such as:





And yes every of those buttons does what it is supposed to!